Date:         Fri, 9 Mar 2007 17:52:14 -0800
Reply-To:     Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
Subject:      Re: Anybody burning WVO in Illinois?-Fryeday rant
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I recently read an article that stated that the earth receives enough solar
energy each day to meet all worldwide human power needs for four months.
Find a truly efficient way to harness that energy and history will hold your
name right up there with Lincoln, Salk, Christ and whoever else.
In the meantime we have to burn stuff.

Cya,
Robert

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Anybody burning WVO in Illinois?-Fryeday rant


> The point on al this alternative fuel business is being missed by miles,
> and until the powers that be come to terms with it, we will  not get out
> energy/auto fuel supply problems worked out.
>
> The untimate source of energy in all our fuels - what ever they are - is
> STARLIGHT!!
>
> That is right. Starlight!!! The energy from our oil which fuels our
> vehicles is stored starlight - energy of radiation from our sun. As long
> as we are pursuing  the stored energy of the sun on our planet as a fuel
> source, we are heading down a road to ultimate exhaustion of all fuels.
> If we move to fuels based on current storage of  the suns energy - and
> it's extraction for our vehicle fuel, we have a chance. But one has to
> balance the rate our our consumption of energy with the rate at which we
> can store sunlight (raise crops) and extract the energy (refining). We
> have the technology today to produce the energy of the stars, and it is
> virtually unlimited, but we must develop the technology to control it
> properly so it is not a danger to us. So far we have not done that very
> well.  But ultimately, it is the only solution. The conversion of a
> small amount of matter can release enough energy to run things for
> centuries. This is the final solution. It can drive all vehicles, heat
> and cool our homes, provide electrical power for a myriad of other
> things, power airplanes and space vehicles. But---- and a big BUT, it
> must be done properly. If done right, it can be a blessing to all
> mankind. If not, then devastation.
>
> So far, we are using atomic power - Star Power or Starlight - as it were
> , with some degree of success, but paranoia prevents much that could be
> done. With good cause, we don't trust ourselves with this, and I
> understand the mistrust. But, ultimately it is the only solution. We
> have to get away from fuels that pollute our air and water, and star
> power would do that. But it has it's own problems. However, in time, I
> believe the problems can be worked out. But we must continue the funding
> of the research that is needed.
>
> In the meantime, I run unleaded regular from the local independent gas
> station.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Rodgers
> 88 GL Driver
>
> Jim Felder wrote:
>>>
>>
>> While I can't say that I've studied the situation, I have thought
>> about it. First off, 200 million vehicles won't be powered by cooking
>> oil. There isn't enough cooking oil, and there aren't that many
>> diesel vehicles. And even if there were, cooking oil isn't located
>> centrally. It has to be collected, which is expensive. What's going
>> to happen is that the cost of that oil is going to go up, as will the
>> cost of the french fries will go up (corn doubled in price last year,
>> and we're not even really using it yet). In checking locally for oil,
>> I find that some restaurants already have a contract for their oil,
>> and I can't have it. It's possible that at some point all of them
>> will have such agreements with someone, but only if diesel vehicles
>> get more popular and making biodiesel or converting cars to run on
>> grease becomes less problematic. I think, though, that biodiesel
>> will, at least for a while, remain far enough outside the mainstream
>> of officialdom that it will long hold its place as the backyard
>> alternative energy fuel for vehicles. There will be continuing
>> sniping at biodiesel-makes by taxing authorities, and a lot will be
>> said about that in the press, however rare and counterproductive it
>> remains.
>>
>> If (when?) the decision turns from "which is the cheapest way to
>> drive" to "there's no gasoline in the pumps this week," People then
>> won't worry so much about how much trouble it is to make or how
>> difficult it is to acquire. To illustrate my point, check out the
>> trailer-based charcoal gas generators that so often powered vehicles
>> in postwar europe. Talk about trouble... but they did it to get
>> around. If there are fuel shortages, getting around will become a
>> very big deal. Any vehicle for which you can make fuel in a community
>> would become very valuable, and in fact would probably comandeered to
>> drive the tax investigators around : ). I'm not saying that it's
>> going to come to this, or if it does that it would be permanent, but
>> it's all part of why you might want to be able to make and burn
>> biodiesel even if it doesn't make great economic sense right not, and
>> why restaurant-grease fuel will  always be a backyard endeavor.
>>
>> Ecologically, the french fry solution is good for our old and
>> inefficient diesels in Vanagons. When you burn petro diesel, you are
>> adding back to the atmosphere the soot that was removed millions of
>> years ago when the coal and oil beds were formed from bogs (sorry, if
>> you think there aren't enough french fries, figure how many dinosaurs
>> would have had to have lived on earth to create the oil that we
>> use!). In using biodiesel, you are just returning what was taken out
>> by the plants last year, so no net gain. You don't want to put any
>> carbon in the air if you don't have to, but if you have to, it's best
>> to use last year's carbon.
>>
>> Jim
>>> My big question regarding biodiesel is somewhat different. What
>>> happens when
>>> we run out of French Fries? Seriously, has anyone stopped to
>>> consider the
>>> ecological, etc., impact of running not just a few thousand but 200
>>> million
>>> + vehicles on used cooking oil? I haven't really studied the
>>> situation, but
>>> it does seem like a problem.
>>>
>>
>>