Date:         Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:13:18 -0500
Reply-To:     Jim Felder <felder@KNOLOGY.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jim Felder <felder@KNOLOGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Global Warming My Vanagon?
Comments: To: rubatoguy@COMCAST.NET
In-Reply-To:  <031420072249.19473.45F87C130006454300004C112207020653979A09019B0E0D9A9D@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed

On Mar 14, 2007, at 5:49 PM, Todd Last wrote:

> What about oil changes &  tire changes?

All cars, old or new, go through tires and batteries at about the  
same rate (except the previously-noted hybrid battery problem).
> Using synthetic vs. dino oil?

Not knowing what it takes to manufacture synthetic oil, who knows the  

answer to that one?

> Battery changes (particulalry dual batteries)

A drop in the ocean of AA cells that get shucked out of the household  

remotes every day.

> Amount of camping for Westy owners (propane)

A drop in the ocean compared with gas grills being used in your  
neighborhood this evening.

> Do you go though an automated car wash or do it in your back yard?
> etc. etc.

Which is more efficient? I don't know. A car wash using gray water is  

better than me with a hose.
>
> I'm not defending one side or the other - it just makes me nervious  

> when people take a complex issue and try to oversimplify it.   
> Particulalry when a number of people on both sides have personal  
> agendas.
>
> Also, since many states allow polluters to buy and crush old cars  
> for emission credits, one could argue that junking your car is  
> contributing to the delay in industry clean-up of their processes.

Again, who knows if they've actually "captured all the costs" in the  
carbon transaction, or are just taking lobbying money from new car  
dealers?

My point in saying all this is that it truly is very complicated. Not  

unknowable, but unknown. Society's gaze has been averted every time  
it has tried to look at the issues and figure them out on account  
greed, politics and all the other obvious reasons. It's sad to say,  
but none of us, at all, really know what the best environmental  
practices are when it comes to taking the entire environmental costs  
into account. We'd better get on the stick.

Once thing I think we can safely say today is to drive less and carry  

more folks when you do. An aging vanagon is a strong incentive to do  
both.

Jim

>
>
> "In theory, reality and theory are the same. in reality they rarely  

> are."
>
> Just my 2 cents
>
> Todd
> '88 Westy
>
>
>  -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: Joy Hecht <hecht.joy@GMAIL.COM>
>> The carbon footprint of a vehicle would be mostly be a linear  
>> function of
>> gasoline consumption.  So it's based on mpg (pretty bad for a  
>> vanagon) x
>> miles driven.  Or simply gallons of gas you consume.
>>
>> The only thing in our favor on vanagons is that we're definitely into
>> "reuse-recycle" instead of discarding things and getting new ones. So
>> whatever GHG emissions result from manufacturing or disposing of  
>> cars, we're
>> avoiding those by keeping old vehicles on the road.  That might  
>> ever so
>> slightly offset the low gas mileage.
>>
>> Also there apparently are battery disposal issues with hybrids -  
>> we don’t
>> have those.
>>
>>
>>
>> Joy
>>
>>
>> ****************************************************************
>> Joy Hecht
>> now living in a real house in northern Virginia
>> and Matilda, 1989 Burgundy Vanagon
>> now living in the driveway and resting after two and a half years
>> lugging Joy and her stuff around...
>>
>> For musings about life traveling in the van or living in one place:
>> http://www.joyhecht.net
>>
>> ****************************************************************
>>
>>
>> :::-----Original Message-----
>> :::From: Tom Buese [mailto:tombuese@comcast.net]
>> :::Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 4:28 PM
>> :::To: Joy Hecht
>> :::Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> :::Subject: Global Warming My Vanagon?
>> :::
>> :::
>> :::On Mar 14, 2007, at 1:51 PM, Joy Hecht wrote:
>> :::
>> :::> Haven't noticed any flaming but yours, Robert!  I have no  
>> interest in
>> :::> starting a discussion about global warming here.
>> :::
>> :::Has anyone calculated the carbon footprint of our beloved  
>> vanagons &
>> :::compared it to a newer more energy efficient vehicle?
>> :::
>> :::Just curious,
>> :::
>> :::Tom B.-talking about overheating
>> :::
>> :::> If you want to show
>> :::> support, great.  If not, fine.  The events are the same  
>> weekend as
>> :::> Every
>> :::> Bus, which I don't want to miss just for a demonstration - hence
>> :::> the post
>> :::> here.
>> :::>
>> :::> As my mother would say, yes please or no thank you will do  
>> very well.
>> :::>
>> :::>
>> :::> Joy
>> :::>
>> :::>
>> :::> :::-----Original Message-----
>> :::> :::From: Vanagon Mailing List  
>> [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>> :::> Behalf
>> :::> :::Of Robert Keezer
>> :::> :::Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 2:47 AM
>> :::> :::To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> :::> :::Subject: Re: going to Everybus? Concerned about global  
>> warming?
>> :::> :::
>> :::> :::Jeff Lincoln wrote:
>> :::> :::
>> :::> :::"50 years ago smoking wasn't a health risk, but
>> :::> :::now we know it is."
>> :::> :::
>> :::> :::I have a 1952 Life Magazine with an article about
>> :::> :::how doctors were claiming cigarettes were the
>> :::> :::cause of cancer.
>> :::> :::
>> :::> :::As far as global warming goes this science is
>> :::> :::exactly why I am subscribed to the Vanagon list.
>