Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 11:55:30 -0700
Reply-To: neil <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: neil <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: contemplating engine upgrade
In-Reply-To: <000801c767ef$c3278420$0201a8c0@dellumudu3qsdq>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 3/16/07, Troy <colorworks@gci.net> wrote:
> Hi folks:
>
> I've been talking with Hans and John at Vanaru (great folks), and I'm about ready to drop nearly $7,000 for a Subaru conversion. The question that keeps going through my mind is- is the van is worth it?. It's an 89 westy with 107K. I'm sure I will love the increased power, reliability, improved gas mileage, etc. I do not, however have a pristine, Southern California, perfect everything van. The interior is fairly decent, and I have no doubt I can improve the interior to my liking. There is a small amount of the interior wallpaper that is peeling, and some of the metal parts have rusted. It's been a fairly easy job to wire brush the metal pieces and repaint. I believe "Go Westy" has the wallpaper available should l want to upgrade the wallpaper inside. The poptop canvas should be replaced, but is usable. The door panels have some buckling, but those too, I believe I can take care of. Over the last few months I've repaired all of the nonworking items, pulled the dash, and replace the climate control cables, heater fan and seals, along with a bunch of switches, radio, new speakers, visors, door handles. fixed the seats and pwr mirrors. I've added a second battery, a power inverter and some other nice extras. It's almost done.
>
> My biggest concern is the exterior and front end. I am starting to see some seam rust, and there's actually some metal missing around the rear window seals. There are some paint chips on the pop top, and cracking in the paint in various places. There are no large areas of visible rust, mostly just the beginnings of seam rust. I currently have the fridge out, and do not see any rust on the side walls, which I understand it's a common area for rust. There is one dent on the driver's side by the utility inlets--pushed in about a 1/2" at the seam junction of the center panel and rear panel--no rust though. My question is, if I want to repaint this vehicle and repair this seam rust, what kind of cost am I looking at? I'm talking about a really pristine job. I would have no trouble removing seals, windows, bumpers, trim parts and so forth to save money. I should also mention that the van has been painted once, and I'm wondering how much that has concealed in terms of hidden rust.
>
> The front end is taking bumps pretty hard, squeaks a lot, but I have no ideal as to the extent of repairs that are needed. At the moment there are four passenger tires (under rated) on the vehicle (I have a set of Hankook's, but have yet to get them installed) I'm hoping that will smooth out the ride, but don't know how much. My mechanic has said that only the left tie rod end is bad and the rest of the front end looks okay-- I have my doubts. Could somebody give me a worst-case scenario, in terms of repair.
>
> In the end, I am either looking for encouragement to go ahead, or a swift kick with a wake up call. When do you call it quits with these vans? How much is too much? Currently I have about 13K into the van, without the engine upgrade. So, what you folks think? Would you put a new engine in or look for something in better condition? The one thing I do like about this van is I know exactly what has been done. If I had this to do over again, I would look for a pristine body and interior 1st, and good engine second. The amount of time spent on details and fixing the non maintained items has been incredible. I don't how many hours I've racked up finding used parts on the Samba list. Thank god for used!
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Troy
>
>
> .
Hey Troy.
Have been thinking, or thought of, similar questions over last while.
My 81 AC Westy has min. seam rust, small dents, but overall is rust
free. When I got it, it needed tires, but I found later that it needed
a missing stabilizer bar, refer repair, along with other things. This
was before I really knew anything about Westys.
Now I know more.
I had a mechanic do st. bar and tires. I soon realized that I needed
to do some of the work. I got back into wrenching. Now I would pretty
much do any repair. I have done so far:
all new rear brakes/CV's, repaired refer, rebuilt clutch housing, new
shocks/tires, repaired odom. etc.
I will:
install new: brake servo, MC, clutch MC, heater fan, install heater
core, (prep for water cooled upgrade) seals on flaps in housing,
bushings on pedals ($$ !), pin, clevis pins/cotters. I will address
front calipers/rotors/wheel bearings too.
It needs:
crack repaired in luggage rack, new seals/canvas on poptop. I can live
with that for now.
I know this van pretty good. I know what's been done. And yes some of
the work I'm doing doesn't need to be done right now. But based upon a
strong personal preference, since I'm doing the labour, the value of
doing preventitive maint. by installing these new parts gives me piece
of mind. I will know what's been done, and how many km's will be on
these parts.
So...... re: engine swap
Even though people have kindly advised me that it's easier to upgrade
the engine (swap to subie VW I4) in a water cooled van, I'm sticking
with it. In my case, I've already put $$/time/sweat into fixing my AC
Westy, so doing more work than average to convert an AC van to water
cooled is worth the time.
The way I figure it, for me, is that if I sold van as-is (air cooled)
I would not realize $$ invested. i.e. a potential purchaser might not
understand the added value of a rebuilt clutch housing, new pilot
bearing/felt ring etc. Even if PP was Vanagon knowledgable, I would
obviously never see a 100% return on $ spent on parts/labour. Who
would? From my POV, I know what's been done. Therefore I can justify
spending $ on parts and extra effort upgrading engine and maintaining
this van.
I look at a Westfalia as a sailboat in terms of maintenance/love of.
Of course you have to know where to draw the line if need be. i.e. I
understand that a fiberglass hull has a life span. But then I know
just about anything can be fixed. For a price of course ;^)
If the mileage is accurate on yours' and the seam rust isn't too bad,
I'd say its worth it. You have a later model that is certainly more
desireable than my year! Repairing interior panels is likely not
expensive. Especially if you do work yourself. Not only have you
gotten things working better and set up the way you want, you have
invested $/time into it. Something you would most likely have to do
with ANY "new" Westy/Vanagon you purchase.
Just my .02
--
Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia.
http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
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