Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:49:13 -0400
Reply-To: Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Subject: Re: In praise of VW inline fours
In-Reply-To: <105830.76325.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Interesting post, in what ways do you mean the Zetec and VW inline four have
similarities?
In response to "Why confuse the issue with a non-VW engine?"
Because:
A) it's actually WAY less confusing depending on what engine you choose
B) there are no VW engines that offer solutions to your end goals
C) there are non-purists that don't care who makes the engine as long as
they get what they pay for
You point out that the ABA has longer rods which minimize vibration. This is
a good observation, the rod ratio of the ABA is around 1.7, vs. for example
the zetec which is 1.58. The ABA is theoretically less prone to vibration,
but because it isn't balanced as precisely, it isn't. It certainly could be,
but from the factory it's not. Additionally because of the rod ratio, the
ABA should also be theoretically worse in terms of low to mid engine speed
cylinder filling and therefore have lower torque production at low RPMs.
Higher rod ratio engines are characteristically better suited for
lightweight vehicles for this reason since they are better suited for high
end power no matter what you do with cam(s) selection. This is reflected in
the performance of the ABA's they are not as torquey down low as the zetec
with a lower rod ratio for instance.
As far as the maintenance goes, it's true that the inline are very easy to
access and work on. If the inline itself is even simpler as far as inlines
go, it gets even.... simpler. If one were to look at them side by side and
in person, it becomes rapidly obvious how insanely simple the zetec is from
the maintenance standpoint,you can for instance do a zetec timing belt
blindfolded with no problem. Not a typical scenario, but it makes a point
about how different the valve timing setup is on the zetec. It uses an
elegantly simple idea to make valve timing virtually impossible to screw up,
no other engine I'm aware of has this in it's design. We should shoot a
video of this so you can see for yourself what the heck I'm talking about
though. Like the ABA the water pump is nice and easy (in fact they use the
same o-ring style pump), here's a video of Sean doing one start to finish in
9 minutes and change
<http://www.bostig.com/products/zetec/videos/zetec_water_pump.wmv>. Another
common one would be the serpentine belt, you can do it with two quarter
turns of a single 15mm open or box wrench. It takes literally 30 seconds. It
will take you longer to get the wrench, take the new belt out of it's paper
keeper, and throw the old belt away than actually swapping the belt.
You mention: " Simplicity, reliability, performance,
affordability."
Bingo. I totally agree, and the zetec outstrips the ABA conversion on every
point. But you forgot your very first mentioned selection criteria for
better or worse which is "VW, *then* Simplicity, reliability, performance,
Affordability" In which case then I'd agree the ABA would be the one.
BTW have a look at these indices:
http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?searchtype=engine
It is data from an aftermarket warranty provider in the UK. There is NO
reason the warranty company would be biased, in fact since their entire
business model revolves around being correct in their risk assessment. I
would say they likely have the best data you're going to see since not only
do they need to track and be accurate in their data collecting, but they
also have complete information since they are actually paying out as well,
it isn't like a consumer reports evaluation based on customer feedback or
factory warranty claims... MANY people have problems that they end up paying
for that they will not complain about, perhaps because on the whole they
love(and I mean love, not like) the car.
This link above is for engine reliability alone... and it is so vital to
break that out of the context of the vehicle alone, since you aren't
actually talking about the whole car with an engine conversion. Nobody cares
if the door handles break too easy on the vehicle that their engine is
coming from (at least they shouldn't).
And look the Honda is right where you would suspect, at number one. And
there are no surprises in terms of where everything else is either. But I've
worked as a mechanic, and am impartial to make
I wish there were a few US aftermarket warranty companies that would publish
data like this, and I wish the data was broken down even further so we could
see which engines are actually contributing what.. as that is the only
shadow cast by the data... there is still not enough info to make a
definitive claim engine by engine based on it... but it can lend to people
realizing that if their high level grasp of what is a reliable "make" is
flawed, maybe they need to re-evaluate how they think about particular
engines too.
As for wanting to make a buck while doing it, yeah it'd be nice but I keep
repeating has never been the goal. I've been doing this conversion for
almost two years now, and nobody involved has made a single dime to show for
it. But it's still worth it. But we have lot's of new friends, and the
amount I've learned in simply making these ideas work is
un-frickin-believable. And besides, we're just getting started.
Flamesuit on, although I tried to stay away from opinion your honors,
Jim
________________________________________
Bostig Engineering
Engine Systems Voodoo
http://www.bostig.com/
617.272.3800
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Keezer [mailto:warmerwagen@YAHOO.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 2:44 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: In praise of VW inline fours
One of the best engines VW designed was the four
cylinder overhead cam inline-four .
You could say it "absolutely rocks" with
performance and reliability.
With lots of room for performance upgrades.
I strongly recommend considering a Jetta or Golf
engine (2.0 '93-'99 ABA).
Watercooled Volkswagen engines are plentiful and
cheap. And of course there is the TDI Diesel,
which is hard to find locally.
Inline-four ABA engines have longer rods which
minimize vibration that is prone to the 1.8
engine.
They also have oil spray jets that spray oil at
the bottoms of the pistons.
Mine has been running my 5,000 lb Westfalia since
1999. It now has 210,000 miles.
If you are looking for a suitable replacement for
the WBX , look no further.
You can call me a purist, but I am just a VW
owner. So if you are your own mechanic and a VW
owner ,then the natural progression is which VW
engine can I substitute?
Why confuse the issue with a non-VW engine?
Sure there's a bunch of people out there and here
that want to make money selling Subaru and Ford
technology. Fine.
You might find it an interesting challenge to
find what non-VW engine can be adapted to the
Vanagon. Nothing odd about that.
I'm speaking for those like myself who want to
have a VW engine in your Vanagon ,but not the
original engine.
Sure, the Subaru or Ford might be fast and quiet
and like a WBX and reliable etc, but it's not a
Volkswagen engine.
And reading these posts I see nothing about the
inline four unless it's a Tiico, as if Tiico was
the only inline four conversion out there.
My dad put a VW engine in a airplane . The flat
four design, the weight, the similarity to other
aircraft engines, made it a popular choice.
Part of the Subaru's popularity is due to it's
similarity to the WBX. Oh yeah and you can goo
super fast.
The Zetech is similar to the VW inline.
Similarities are OK.
One Vanagon owner just asked if the Subie sounds
like the WBX.
Another observation-WBX owners like the sound of
the WBX. It just shows how we form an attachment
to the sound of the car.
Would Harley's be popular if they sounded like
Kawasakis?
The inline four doesn't sound like a WBX.
I recognize the virtues of the WBX, but few from
a maintenance perspective . I do like the sound,
and the quietness. I found the WBX 2.1 muffler is
great on an inline conversion.
Try removing the AC compressor or alternator from
an 89 Honda Civic like on a friends.
They designed it to be worked on up on a hoist.
The inline four has it all on one side , easy to
replace a water pump, alternator, AC compressor,
spark plugs, distributor, etc.
Simplicity, reliability, performance,
affordability.
We are a small group of people who aprreciate
drive a vehicle no longer in production and with
diminishing support from VW.
That was recogninzed shortly after the last
Vanagon rolled off the assembly line.
This list has help provide a way owners can ehlp
each other where there is limited or non-existing
help.
A good book on water-cooled inline four VW
engines is the Watercooled Volkswagen Performance
Handbook by Greg Raven
ISBN 0-7603-0491-2
Robert
1982 Westfalia 2.0 ABA '95 Golf
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