Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 23:54:45 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: oil pressure and oil pump priming
In-Reply-To: <04e301c7928c$51b3e7d0$0a00a8c0@OWNERMIKE>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
One of the problems with Vanagon engines is the maintenance of tolerances.
The oil pump has a number of issues. First is the fit in the case and the
sealing of the case to oil pump ports. Especially on the inlet side. The
pump can be tight but if the inlet is not totally sealed, the pump can
suck air and have difficulty priming. Maybe this was your problem and
pouring the oil down behind the cam gear got it going for you.
Next is the pump cover. Even new, they often are not flat. Since it is a
type 1 pump, there are some aftermarket pumps and or covers available that
are better. I do not use the outer paper gasket. I do not believe in
oversized pumps as they only create other problems but I want the pump to
work as well as possible and of course we want to avoid leaks. I make sure
the cover is flat and seal with one of the Loc-tite anaerobic gasket
eliminators or flange sealants. Use some sealant around the cover bolt
holes to prevent leakage there. Sealing nuts will prevent the nuts
loosening and leaking.
Now for most important part, pump and oil system priming. First, the pump
does not pump air well. In order for it get a seal so it can create a
vacuum and prime, there ahs to be a connection between the gears in the
pump and the body. Yes, you need to get some oil or something in there.
Before putting on the pump cover, put some grease in the cavities on both
sides of the pump. You don’t need a lot. Just enough to squeeze out when
the engine turns to provide a seal until some oil gets in there. The
grease is not needed if you plan to prime the pump with oil as noted
below.
Next- cranking the engine with the starter until oil pressure builds.
Don't! If the engine was just assembled, assembly lube should be on the
bearings and cam lobes and the cylinders should have had some oil wiped on
them. The pump will take a long time to pull a prime and push oil when
cranking at 50-70 rpm. The cylinders also need splash action to get oil on
them. To be really smart, fill the oil galleys and the pump with a hand
oilier. Yes, a small pump type oil can is all you really need. Make sure
the oil and can is clean. On the later engines, remove the oil pressure
switch near the pump and pump oil in there. Push the can tip and pump
until you feel some resistance. If the filter is off, some oil will even
flow up there. This will get quite a bit of oil into the pump and help
with priming. The remove the other pressure switch and do the same. Some
oil is now in the galleys wetting the bearings. You can also do this
pushing the oil into the center oil filter mount. Do not fill the filter.
A little burp room will also help the pump pick up and prime faster. Now,
let the engine start. My bet is you will have pressure in less than 30
seconds. The pump does work much better at 1,000 rpm then 50. Once the
pressure is there, you will want to increase the rpm to get the splash on
the cylinder walls and off the rockers onto the valve stems. This revving
time is the perfect time to finish bleeding and filling the cooling
system. Yes, you want the cooling system fully functional before the
engine starts to warm up. Yes, some help is nice now.
This is how I start a new engine.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Mike
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 6:50 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: oil pressure
David,
The use of writing (computer/ drawing / copy / printing) paper is not
appropriate for permanent use as a critical engine seal, such as this.
Use
only the correct gasket, nothing less. Regular paper or cardboard is not
formulated or treated for this application, like a proper gasket material
is; As you stated, "The thin one was not torn
apart by merely looking at it though." Why do you think that is?
It's not like they're expensive or hard to find, so why take a chance?
Also, why advocate the use of this to members of this list?
You're certainly welcome to ignore and question valid advice from the
seasoned pros on this list. You're also welcome to destroy your own
engines,
while learning all your lessons the hard way. But don't recommend this
behavior to others. You said yourself, that you're a first-timer. If you
can't ask questions, listen to the answers, discuss subjects to gain
knowledge and follow the good advice that you're freely given, then why
are
you here? Is it because something which is given freely has no value?
There are alot of good, experienced people populating this list. A smart
person will consider thier advice and solutions to Vanagon-specific
problems.
Maintaining diplomacy, while not "crying bloody murder",
Mike B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Kao" <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: oil pressure
> --- Thomas Pfrommer <pfrommer@PHAS.UBC.CA> wrote:
>
>> Hm do you or anyone know the thickness of these gaskets...
>
> Thomas, I just measured the pair of gasket in my Elring set. The thin
one
> is about .006" - .007" and the thick one is .02". The thin one was not
> torn
> apart by merely looking at it though. My computer printer paper of 24
lbs
> is about .003" - .004" You can make one out a sheet paper of 28 lbs or
> simply
> out a sheet of 24 lbs.
>
> Well, since I have been considered Not Reasonably Conscious for what I
do
> so
> take these numbers at your own risk. I know someone will jump out to cry
> bloody murder because I said these.
>
> David
>
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