Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:28:41 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Riddle me this... Honda Brake question NVC!
In-Reply-To: <c4e7c5f90705161606g2b54ba4eo89c041c88ada7103@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On many cars it is becoming a normal practice to replace front rotors with
the pads. There are a number of reasons to do this:
1) It avoids or eliminates comebacks due to brake noises or bouncing
brakes.
2) Due to the high costs of labor, even at the ridiculous price of dealer
rotors, it is not cost justified to cut them.
3) Rotor cutting lathes are not that good and neither are low wage
operators, go back to step 1.
4) Newer pad materials do cause rotor wear. Most vehicles only have 2mm
extra. Vanagons included.
5) New rotors are not turned on a lathe. They are milled or fly cut. That
gives a cross hatch pattern which helps to seat the pads. Remember piston
and cylinder honing? Same concept. Back to #1.
6) The outside of the rotor actually travels faster then the center. This
will often create a taper to the rotor surface. Not good for new pads and
will take some cutting to get straight. Rotor too thin and nothing left
for wear.
7) Rotors that have seen hard use will work and heat harden. Can't be cut,
only ground. Not many shops can do that.
As for a different pad, the PEM pads are usually the best all around
compromise. A softer pad will wear faster and in some situations have less
stopping power. Especially fade resistance. A harder pad will last longer
but may require more pedal effort and due to the lack of friction, may
heat up the rotors or worse leave deposits both causing more bouncy
brakes. I tried so called ceramic pads on my Benz. What a mistake. Has the
deposit problem. When cold the brakes are fine. Once heated they pulse and
grab and make noises that can be heard outside. You can see the film and
some metal transfer on the rotors.
Pads have friction ratings. They are letters such as "EE" of "FF". The
higher the letter, the more friction. "EE" is a hard, long life pad
material. "FF" is common. The Vanagon front OEM is "GG". Of course there
is a ride range in actual performance for a given letter rating. Axxiss
Metal Masters work well in Vanagons even though they are "EE". I had "EE"
that simply will not stop.
Hope this helps.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
neil
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 7:07 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Riddle me this... Honda Brake question NVC!
Hi all.
So, ok.
A 2004 Accord, original owner (me!) 43K Km's, never had rotors turned,
front pads at 5%, but NO metal on metal.
Why would the rotors wear to the point of having to be replaced??
I get the feeling they know something I don't (like orig rotors cheap
product) as they quoted me around $300 for pads/hardware/rotors
installed. Rotors were $93 ea., so that plus pads etc. AND labour
maybe should be higher? (I'm not argueing!)
Should I specify a different type of pad next time?
Sorry for attempting to avail myself upon the help of Vanagon people,
but this has me puzzled.
--
Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia.
http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
