Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:35:47 -0700
Reply-To: Matthias Kuster <matthiaskuster@VERIZON.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Matthias Kuster <matthiaskuster@VERIZON.NET>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on conversions (kinda LONG)
In-Reply-To: <062020071413.9670.467936170004CC9D000025C62216566276C9C9CDCB020E03020100@comcast.net>
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Geeks and Freaks!
Doing a conversion on our vans is absolutely a good way to go. HOWEVER:
- Doing a conversion yourself, all bets are off. Do not pressure
yourself into a limited time frame. Things will go wrong, forgotten.
I think 4 months is a bit long (I only have experience with the Subie
2.2l). It's prbably between 100hours and 200 hours of dirty work,
lying down on your creeper, getting back up a million times. You will
be tired and frustrated at times, even if she fires up right away.
Lots of people exaggerate the time they take for stuff, others may be
spastic turtles like myself. Allow yourself space.
- First you have to get an engine complete and harness. This will
take at least 1 day at the junkyard, not considering the time you
spend looking for a suitable candidate. I don't recommend junkyard
engines, but if you feel lucky, go for it.
- Harness took me at least 1 week the first time, about 40 hours.
Probably have it down to about twenty five now. But still have to put
my thinking cap on sometimes and take a break.
- Bolting the whole thing up is the easy part. What will do your head
in are things like finding appropriate cooling hoses to connect to
reverse manifold etc. You also have to crossover (bypass) the heater
circuit. Timimg is important, to know what to do when in the process,
else you will end up doing stuff three times: the first, then to take
it apart again, then to install it. Any screw up will result on you
spending up to three times the original time.
- you are tightening lots of bolts and changing/ replacing lots of
stuff, it is a good idea to keep a log of what you did each day, so
you won't get confused/paranoid when you need to troubleshoot later
on for some reason
- Once you have it running and drivable, you will then most likely
spend another month's evenings and weekends smoothing out things,
installing aftermarket sensors, gauges, whatnot
- On the last two I did I also replaced the cv joints, redid all the
hoses, radiator, replaced both heater cores, repainted all exterior
trim, new ball joints, bearings, brakes etc. These cars are over 20
years old now, which is old for any car, especially for a Volkswagen
(sorry). Once you get into it you will find other crap that needs
fixing. You are going to curse.
- i have done this 4 times now, and I still screw up and have to do
things over.
Everytime I get into my Vanagons, I am very happy, especially going
to the desert or up north for road tripping. I quickly forget all the
frustration. My biggest mistake is having chosen junkyard engines.
Best to get a running car I think, or JDM (JapDmstcMarket). I just
had to swap out a longblock, as the other one had a piston going
straight through the case. The piston was completely shattered to
bits and a big hole into the water jackets, piston and engine metal
everywhere in engine!!! Junkyard engine with 115k miles, but had
probably been overheated and junk rod bearings. The new replacement
sounds a lot better but won't idle just yet, probably because oil/
coolant emulsion went into intake and the leftover now is fouling the
plugs.
Troubleshooting might make the time cost for your conversion double,
triple or quadruple in time cost. That is if it doesn't start and
run fine right away. Ripping the harness open again and checking all
connections and sensors will be a lot of work.
This is not a very structured comment. The thing is: I do want to
warn you, it is a perilous trail, at least has been in my experience.
Once you are sorted, it's done, and you are good for years, many years.
As hobbyists we lack the common sense and experience a mechanic
already has. For us to understand why something isn't working, we
have to go find the answers and try to understand the mechanic
principles and idiosyncrasies, read up, get help from mailing lists etc.
Keeping our Vanagons does not make sense on a rational level at all.
We can complain all we want how expensive new (Sprinter comes to
mind) Mini, or smewhat mini RVs are, but that's what our Vanagons
cost at the time also. Now, for love, it makes all the sense in the
world to keep a Vanagon. Know that when you go into a conversion. And
when you are ready to throw in the towel at times, imagine how much
fun it will be pushing the beast with twice the power, 10 times the
reliability, reasonable fuel economy and still the roots Westy
boxyness and hanging your nose in the wind.
Thing is, you can get the feeling without the frustration: Let a
reputable pro do the work for you, and Bob's your uncle. Either path
is going to be a luxury, but you deserve it.
My (bag of) 2cents
Matthias
On Jun 20, 2007, at 7:13 AM, Jeff Stewart wrote:
> <The average time for a newbie to do a Subaru conversion is 4
> months to a
> year. A turn key kit can be installed in 1 - 3 days. Buying a few
> proven
> parts/systems can take the 6 month project down to a few weeks, and
> yield a
> much better result.>
>
>
> WOW, a sobering thought. I'm hoping to do mine in 4 weeks, that
> meaning weekends and some evening time. I would have liked nothing
> more than to bring my Westy to East Coast Vanagons, drop it off,
> and say "Call me when it's done". But, unfortunately my VW's are
> "hobby" vehicles, and I don't have it in my budget to do that.
> That's not to say the price of the conversion is out of line, I'm
> sure it's fair. I'm only along as far as I am now (have the donor
> car, '91 Legacy/rear ended & SmallCar kit) because I sold my '75
> Westy for WAY more than I thought it would bring. I expected to get
> around $3,500.00 for it and it sold for nearly twice that (had to
> kick in part of the proceeds toward home repairs, though, dammit).
> There is a wealth of info out there on the conversion, almost too
> much. A lot of the personal web sites I've found from folks who
> have done the conversion are are years old and the issues they
> encountered and had to solve themselves have been solved by vendors
> who have brou
> ght solutions to market. I am not a mechanic, but I have put a 2.1
> in my '84 (had a seized motor when I bought it) myself, but I
> couldn't have done it without Jim Thompson's write up on his site.
> Now, I've even seen it stated that to R&R a Vanagon engine takes 20
> hours! I must be fairly good, because I had the seized motor out in
> less than 3, and took about the same time getting the 2.1 back in
> after swapping things over. I mentioned my VW's are "hobby"
> vehicles, my everyday driver is a Honda Element. I'm looking to get
> Honda reliability out of the Westy. I love my Westy, and I'd have
> loved to keep it all VW, but I just don't think that kind of
> reliability is possible from the VW wasserboxer today, even less so
> in the future. FWIW, I asked the Tiico group a few weeks ago, Tiico
> or Subaru? The majority of responses told me to go Subaru-I think I
> got two responses from folks happy with their Tiico conversions.
> I'm not even really looking for power, when my 2.1 is running well
> I feel
> it has plenty of power-but that's WHEN it's running well. Anyway,
> I'm really hoping that I am successful with my Subie conversion and
> I get the reliability I'm looking for. Then I can give my Element
> to my daughter when she gets her license in a year or so. IF not, I
> may be looking at another conversion: the Westy interior into a
> Chevy van! Jeff
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