Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:29:36 -0400
Reply-To: Mike S <mikes@FLATSURFACE.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Mike S <mikes@FLATSURFACE.COM>
Subject: Re: What is it with the US? (No real van content)
In-Reply-To: <1182842774.4680bf96c46e5@www.stonebow.otago.ac.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 03:26 AM 6/26/2007, Andrew Grebneff wrote...
>There's nothing "green" about diesels as far as pollution is
>concerned.
I suppose that requires a definition of "green." Compared to SI
engines, diesels are better for some pollutants, worse for others.
Real world diesels (the VW TDi, in this case) are capable of lower
emissions per mile than a comparable gasoline engine, with the
exception of NOx and particulates. There's a whole debate possible on
the relative (de)merits of different pollutants, but it's reasonable to
say the diesel and SI have been in the same ballpark with regard to
pollutants, and one could argue for either being better. Diesel will
get better still in terms of pollutants, too, now that low-sulphur fuel
is on the US market. I don't know if NZ has that available yet.
>The ONLY reason for their popularity in Europe & Japan is economics...
>diesels use less fuel than gas engines, and even if diesel costs the
>same
>as gas, the better milage (kilometerage?)will result in a saving for
>the
>owner... never mind that he will never recoup the extra cost of buying
>the
>diesel car in the first place.
Nope, the premium (~US$1200 on my Beetle, AIR) has been recouped. Quick
calc with reasonable assumptions: 45mpg vs. 30mpg, equal fuel cost of
$3/gallon. Over 45,000 miles, diesel saves 500 gallons (=$1500) in fuel
costs, paying for the premium. It obviously gets better from there, and
you also get better residual value due to the better mileage and the
fact that diesels have a reputation for longevity.
>No diesel car is going to get 60mpg (especially in US gallons) under
>normal driving conditions... these figures are only obtainable by
>using
>extreme techniques and only on out-of-town roads. 30-40mpg (imperial!)
>is
>rather more likely in town for normal driving.
You don't have your facts correct. I got an actual 44.5 US MPG measured
over 100K+ miles in my TDi. That's real world, mixed highway/city, all
weather conditions, no special driving to increase economy, and with an
engine chipped to deliver about 25% more power than stock when desired.
That is not exceptional, and is in line with what many other owners
get.
With a lighter car having a smaller, less powerful engine, 60 MPG could
be done. Or a diesel/electric hybrid. Whether it would sell in the
marketplace is a different question. VW sells the 60+ MPG (imperial
gallons, highway) Polo today (outside of NA), so an actual car you can
buy isn't too far from what you're asking for.
I wouldn't expect 60 MPG in a Vanagon.
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