Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 02:29:33 -0500
Reply-To: Matt Roberds <mattroberds@COX.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Matt Roberds <mattroberds@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: What is it with the US? (No real van content)
In-Reply-To: <20070623175950.PKFN27721.fed1rmmtai108.cox.net@fed1rmimpi02.cox.net>
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> From: neil <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:38:10 -0700
>
> Could you imagine a Smart Car size w/the current small diesel +
> electric motor? Could it be done?
You can hybridize anything. :) The Smart is probably a little tight on
space, but you could do it. IMHO it's not a big concern, because the
Smart isn't a "real car" by American standards anyway, so I'm not sure
that they will sell very well here, higher fuel costs notwithstanding.
The Insight wasn't a "real car" either (two-seater, funny styling) and
it's gone. The Prius, Camry, Accord are "real cars" and they are
selling.
Also, a modern diesel might be good enough by itself to meet the current
needs of the market. Jim Akiba may be able to comment more
intelligently on this, but it seems like for better mileage and lower
emissions, the Japanese companies are doing hybrids, while the European
ones are doing modern common-rail diesels. I think this makes sense in
light of their major markets. Japan sells a lot of cars in North
America, where you pretty much have to sell gasoline-engined cars, so
they've gotten pretty good at gasoline engines. To crank up the mileage
on those, it's easier to hybridize with an electric motor. The European
makers sell lots of cars in Europe, where you pretty much have to sell
diesel-engined cars, so they've gotten pretty good at diesel engines.
To crank up the mileage on those, it's easier to put a modern fuel
injection system on them. I can almost guarantee you that there are
experimental diesel hybrids running around Tokyo and Wolfsburg - I wonder
if maybe the Europeans plan to sell modern diesels for a while and keep
the hybrid diesel in their back pocket until it's time to kick it up a
notch.
> I believe the actual size of battery for the electric motor in the
> Prius is not that large.
The traction battery isn't very large, physically. It sits right over
the rear axle, between the rear wheel wells - if you're sitting in the
back seat, it's right behind your butt. In my '01, it manifests itself
as a bump in the floor of the trunk at the front that is maybe 6" high
and 8" deep. Imagine a box that would hold a stack of about 40 VHS
tapes and you'll be close.
The electric motors are inside the transaxle. If you saw a Prius engine
and transaxle assembly out of the car, it would pretty much look like
any modern FWD car's powertrain, except for the power cables sticking
out of the transmission.
The other major box of goodies is the inverter. On the Prius this sits
on top of the transaxle and is a box maybe 10-12" square and 4" thick.
It is liquid-cooled.
> And there's only one.
There is only one traction battery. On the '01-'03 (and I think on the
'04 and up as well), it is made of 38 modules, each module having six
1.2 V cells. So, 7.2 V per module or 273.6 V for the whole battery. I
don't remember the Ah number offhand but it's not very large. The plug-
in hybrid people install much larger (Ah and physically) batteries.
There is also a small 12 V battery to run the lights, engine controls,
radio, etc. The engine is cranked over by one of the big motors on the
273.6 V battery, so the 12 V battery doesn't have to be very big - it's
about the size of your average garden tractor battery. It is recharged
by a DC-DC converter from the high-voltage system - there is not a
belt-driven alternator. In my '01, the 12 V battery lives at the left
side of the trunk, behind the left rear wheel well and in front of the
bumper.
Matt Roberds
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