Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:56:58 -0700
Reply-To: VW Doka <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: VW Doka <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Beware EBAY LVC was: Re: eBay Professor for Vanagon parts ...
In-Reply-To: <467F1533.9030907@cs.uchicago.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Wes,
The problem is that "feedback retaliation" works both ways. If a vendor was
required to submit feedback after payment, he could be held hostage by the
buyer (ask me how I know) for a discount or partial refund. And I can
guarantee you that there are just as many (more) unscrupulous buyers as
sellers on eBay.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of Wesley Pegden
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 6:07 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Beware EBAY LVC was: Re: eBay Professor for Vanagon parts
...
I couldn't agree more with your comments about revenge feedback. It
hasn't happened to me, but I've noticed that sellers use it as a
tactic. If ebay was interested in improving their policies, they could
simply require sellers to submit feedback first (i.e., immediately upon
receiving prompt payment) but instead they'd rather prop up the scores
of bad sellers so they can push more total transactions and get more
commissions.
One tactic you can use to spot this is to scour the feedback page for
instances of ratings "mutually withdrawn". I always consider this a big
red flag, especially if when I go to the other users page, I see that
the seller left the kind of BS retaliatory feedback he left for Jeff.
I agree with BJ's message; there are undoubtedly some great sellers on
ebay. I think they are the exception, but nevertheless, it can be
possible to find them. I still buy things on ebay, but I steer clear of
the feedback retaliators.
-Wes
Jeff Oxroad wrote:
> Agreed, Beware of Vanagon parts and VW stuff on Ebay as a general rule.
eBay
> is a haven for scheisters, and eBay corporate policy encourages consumer
rip
> offs.
>
> And I realize there are honest sellers on eBay and I would encourage those
> honest eBayers, both buyers and sellers, to encourage eBay to adjust it's
system
> that benefits dishonest sellers. I realize it won't happen, but I'm just
> saying...
>
> I occasionally use eBay, and only in dollar amounts I can afford to lose,
and
> often do.
>
> On a total of 20 purchases over about 6 years I have been cheated on 3
items,
> maybe 4. You will find Ebay has no interest and no means to help in these
> situations.
>
> In one case I bought some Genuine VW videotapes featuring sales tips for
the
> Vanagon. They never arrived. I never heard from the seller. I was out
about
> $25. eBay told me they could do nothing, but I could contact the FBI since
I had
> made a payment through the US Mail, and the FBI would likely investigate
> since Mail Fraud is a Federal Offense. eBay also suggested I use one of
their PAY
> arbitration and mediation sites-- for about $25 these firms will look into
> your problem with no guarantee of resolution.
>
> I hate to be old fashioned. But really, am I gonna call in the FBI on $25
on
> ebay?
>
> Without going into all the details the other bad situations where similar
and
> included Genuine VW parts that were not Genuine VW. Another guy had a
brand
> new "H" connector for off the expansion tank on the 1.9L which was clearly
old
> and used when it arrive. He took a return of the product. He was "sure" it
was
> new. I lost out on shipping costs.
>
> eBay considers someone misrepresenting a product and taking it back on
> return, with the shipping cost the responsibility of the bilked buyer, a
"positive
> experience". This because the seller refunded the cost minus shipping two
ways
> for a misrepresented item. The short is, lying is encouraged as such. It
cost
> the lying buyer nothing but the time and he could now relist the item for
some
> other sucker.
>
> My most recent transaction was with a seller with over 3000 sales on ebay
and
> 99% positive feedback. When he sent me a repro VW part not as advertised
and
> in fact unusable I left him negative feedback. He had also had some shady
> payment practices and was a real jerk to deal with. I lost $25 on this
transaction.
>
> So I leave the negative feedback which was simply and honest: "low quality
> ill-fitting repro part". I now have just learned about what is casually
referred
> to as "revenge feedback". After leaving him the appropriate negative
> feedback, the seller left me feedback which was "Illiterate moron. left
negative
> feedback on perfect item. Beware when dealing with this guy." or something
close to
> that.
>
> I don't sell on ebay, but I do know that the threat that a buyer or seller
is
> brave enough to leave negative feedback is a very negative concept for
those
> who rely on their feedback ratings to lure in buyers or sellers.
>
> So after this false negative feedback (well, you could argue I AM a moron)
> the seller applies for a mediation which is an agreement with the buyer
and
> seller to mutually withdraw each persons feedback to the other. I've just
found by
> a google search this is common practice on eBay. And it keeps unscrupulous
> sellers from having ANY negative feedback. I don't want the negative
feedback he
> left me so I'm inclined to agree to the "mediation" and mutual withdrawal.
> The Seller would then still have his 99% positive feedback rating and no
> negative marks.
>
> eBay also refuses to get involved in feedback issues, unless both parties
are
> willing to withdraw their feedback. eBay has no policy about what feedback
> may include with the exception of a person's name, address, or profane
language.
> So any personal insults or untruths are completely tolerated and I would
> argue promoted since there is no consequence.
>
> It's a sellers market. If you notice almost ALL sellers on ebay have above
a
> 90% positive feedback rating and most in the high 90s%. In what amateur
mail
> order world is it likely that so many people are constantly satisfied and
> overjoyed with the used crap they receive?
>
> And high 90s is certainly a good enough reason to do business with a
seller
> if the rating were in any way based in reality. But with honest ebayers in
fear
> of losing their positive feedback ratings through untrue revenge feedback,
> I'm sure they opt not to leave negative feedback for anyone in many cases.
>
> And yes, my bad for dealing with eBay at all. I send this to share one key
> reason the eBay deck is stacked against an honest person. Ebay makes money
on
> the sales whether dishonest or not, so has no want to curb the
dishonest--except
> for conscience. And I did mention it's an American corporation, didn't I.
So
> conscience isn't really a player.
>
> Best,
> Jeff
> 83.5 Westy
> LA, CA
>
>
> In a message dated 6/24/2007 1:36:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> samcvt@COMCAST.NET writes:
>
> that there are a fairly large group of "sellers" on Ebay, whose ethics and
> sense of values are not particularly credible.
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
>
>
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