Date:         Fri, 22 Jun 2007 12:36:25 -0400
Reply-To:     Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Subject:      Re: New Engine Conversion
In-Reply-To:  <0f5701c7b431$820bd840$c901a8c0@w2ktopcat>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The ecotec is a world engine program just like the Zetec. The zetec is
closer in design to the Mazda Duratec that ford is now using in the focus.
The ecotec is a good engine as well, some of the reasons we didn't choose
the ecotec to begin with were:

All-aluminum. The zetec uses a cast-iron block, with aluminum head and AL
sub-crankcase, but is still lighter than the ecotec. So you get the
durability/longevity of the cast iron, without taking a weight hit usually
associated with it.

Better engine management with zetec, the ecotec shares many of the same
features as the zetec, but in 2004, there weren't as many engine management
options for it.

Zetec has no balance shafts. Which can be read fewer moving parts, and if
the engine NVH can be managed without them... KISS

Size. The ecotec is larger/heavier than the zetec.

But these are small things, and won't be the true differentiators.  The idea
is a good one, and we're glad to have more support and recognition of this.
It helps to reinforce what we've been saying for the last two years about
the conversions, and why our engine choice was made and what the benefits
can be.  Starting with a good engine of the right generation, for the right
reasons is only a start. The real task is adding value to the engine in the
form of its implementation in a vanagon.  Doing all of the design work to
make it happen, revise/evolve it, work out the bugs, test it, support it
etc, are going to be the crucial steps and the ones in which the value is
created.  It will be interesting to watch someone else's efforts that begin
with a starting point similar to what ours was.  The power options are
good(I wish we had the higher base output), but people aren't primarily
after power, they already prove that by owning a vanagon to begin with.
Total or System reliability(of which engine reliability is a component) is
the #1 return on investment people are after. Which is entirely correct,
since the lack of reliability costs $$, slightly less power does not. That
reliability is directly related to the quality of thought, depth and breadth
of understanding, attention to detail, quality of manufacture, and
efficiency of the organization responsible for the implementation of a given
engine.  A pricetag of $5800 is great, but is likely not sustainable for a
turnkey, even based on the ecotec.  So I expect the price will need to go up
unless they are much futher along in design and know differently.  It is
different territory from starting with the subie conversion that needed
compilation into a turnkey. This will be a good opportunity to show what
they will do when building up from a lower level up.  I would also suggest
the adoption of a first install group program like we do. A lower price for
the first install group provides value to guys that are willing to do a
little work themselves on upgrades, design revs, swap parts etc in exchange
for development testing help and the understanding that there will be issues
along the way that need to be sorted.  Anyhow, the next thing needed is to
go from vaporware to reality, it will be more useful to examine and critique
an actual conversion than speculate on what it may be like.

Welcome to the party!!

Jim Akiba






-----Original Message-----
From: TC [mailto:trclark@SHAW.CA]
Sent: 2007-06-21 2:25 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: New Engine Conversion

hehe hum
> as the basis for this new conversion.  The only close competitor was the
> Ford Zetec, but the Ecotec line had far more factory engine choices (142,
> 172, 205, 265hp) versions and NO TIMING BELT.
luv to hear from the guys at Bostig pro/con the Zetec vs Ecotec
I am sure they already did the R&D b4 they thought the Zetec was THE one
how many of those are mfg ,is that a world motor so you can get parts
ANYwhere ?