Vanagon EuroVan
Previous messageNext messagePrevious in topicNext in topicPrevious by same authorNext by same authorPrevious page (June 2007, week 4)Back to main VANAGON pageJoin or leave VANAGON (or change settings)ReplyPost a new messageSearchProportional fontNon-proportional font
Date:         Thu, 28 Jun 2007 19:23:46 -0700
Reply-To:     "Chris S." <mrpolak@YAHOO.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         "Chris S." <mrpolak@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: TDI conversion thoughts
Comments: To: Pensioner <al_knoll@PACBELL.NET>
In-Reply-To:  <HHEAJIOMDPBGGCKHACGJOEIICMAA.al_knoll@pacbell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Pensioner,

Allow me to chime in based on my experience of driving a TDI Beetle over the last 4 years.

1 - I've not seen diesel at 10% over regular fuel for a very long time, and I only saw it for a very short period of time several years ago. In the winter the fuel is about 5% more expensive than gas, and now it is cheaper than gas. Diesel fluctuates less than gasoline.

2 - I've not seen a Syncro Westy that gets 20 mpg at highway cruising speeds unless they are traveling 60 mph. Neither of my two Westies got 20 mpg at 70 mph and they are lighter 2wd models, one a being a lighter-yet "weekender". 20mpg at 60mph is more realistic. At those speeds even an old 1.6 TD (70hp) Vanagon gets 35 mpg, and the TDI would do better give the right gearing.

3. TDI does better than 30% in efficiency over gas, especially the WBX. A gas New Beetle will get 24 mpg in town while mine gets 40 mpg. At 70 mph mine gets 47 mpg while a gasser will do 30 mpg. That's a difference of 66% and 56 % respectively.

So, plug in those numbers and you come up with a much more realistic picture. At 15K miles per year that's a $900 return. A more realistic mileage of 25K per year yields a savings of about $1500. Add the increased torque durability and driveability, and the TDI is a clear winner.

So, you are right, you don't convert to TDI for the sole purpose of saving money. You convert because your engine is nearly gone or too weak to pull up a hill in 4th gear at 70 mph. Or... because you can't have all those cars you want and you need just ONE vehicle to do everything.

Above all, compare the cost of a conversion versus replacing your Westy all together and then it becomes a relative bargain.

Pensioner <al_knoll@PACBELL.NET> wrote: For the sake of argument, and I'm sure there will be some, lets assume you have a 1989 Westy Syncro. Assume the price per gallon differential between Diesel and Gasoline is 10% (3.00/gal vs 3.30/gal). Assume the fuel economy increase will be on the order of 30%. Assume you will drive the converted van 100KMi.

If you drive 20KMi per year that's 5 years to amortize the cost of the conversion. 10 years if you drive 10KMi per year. If the conversion cost is $15,000 then you have to save $1500 on fuel for a 10,000 mile distance. Thats' roughly $15 per 100 miles travelled. If your gasoline consumption is 20MPG now and 100 miles costs 5 gallons or $16.50 and your new diesel consumption is ~30MPG and that's 3.3 gallons per 100 miles or ~$10 it's pretty clear that amortizing the transplant cost will take more than 100Kmi to break even, more like 200K miles or more.

So a TDI conversion for fuel expense reasons is at best a very questionable venture. However if you're going to have to do a new engine anyway to the tune of say $5000 then things become somewhat more reasonable. You would only have to save $1000 per 10,000 miles in fuel or $10 per 100 miles traveled. Still not home free but if it smokes your cigar then...

So to break even you need to get that transplant cost into the realm of $6 per 100 miles pointing to a $11000 transplant cost (taking into the mix the fact you'd have to spend $5000 anyway to fix your present motor)

Lots of other factors to consider but putting the maintenance and such aside a turnkey transplant gross cost of $10000 is a pretty good breakeven point.

--------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.


Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main VANAGON page

Please note - During the past 17 years of operation, several gigabytes of Vanagon mail messages have been archived. Searching the entire collection will take up to five minutes to complete. Please be patient!


Return to the archives @ gerry.vanagon.com


The vanagon mailing list archives are copyright (c) 1994-2011, and may not be reproduced without the express written permission of the list administrators. Posting messages to this mailing list grants a license to the mailing list administrators to reproduce the message in a compilation, either printed or electronic. All compilations will be not-for-profit, with any excess proceeds going to the Vanagon mailing list.

Any profits from list compilations go exclusively towards the management and operation of the Vanagon mailing list and vanagon mailing list web site.