Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:50:26 -0700
Reply-To: David Kao <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David Kao <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Why convert? was Re: Inside a Subi engine EJ22
In-Reply-To: <020b01c7c640$85f6a950$667ba8c0@main>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Points well taken, Robert. No doubt, there are always times you will need more power
for the 20 year old clunker. And you will never have enough of it.
I have driven my 84 clunker through the summit (over 10,000 ft) of Sonora Pass
(HWY 105) over the Sierra Mountains. You will need the 2nd gear a lot. You may
need 1st gear sometimes. It would have been nice if you drive an SUV with a V8.
But, you will see that there are plenty of slower cars there. I have seen Volvo
wagons that did not go any faster. Those SUVs will pass you if they can. But you
will see they don't go much faster either. Most of them passed mine but
only kept themselves ahead of me. There were always slow cars there to slow them
down. There were military Hummers on the road. I saw an 18 wheeler too. It was
slow for sure. But no one was in a hurry any way.
Sure more power is nice. Make your own justification of other things along
with more power you will get. I won't do it only for the reason of more power
for that trip that I only did it once in my life so far.
You can argue more power will save you from instances otherwise would catch you
in trouble without the additional power. But keep in mind, Vanagons are among
the safest vans with lowest fatality rate without any additional power. I actually
believe the smaller horse should be credited for that. You simply can not drive
it aggressively which is a reason to be caught in troubles. You can easily find
evidence of that by looking into AAA's web site and look for Ford Mustang's
fatality rate report. Plenty of horse power and plenty of death associate with
it.
David
--- Robert Fisher <refisher@MCHSI.COM> wrote:
> Some time ago I drove my '87 GL up nearby Walker pass (going from about
> 2300' to about 5200' elevation). We had three adults and two kids, the van
> was unloaded otherwise. I was doing well to make 38 mph; if I'd had a couple
> dollars more change in my pocket it would've probably been 35. That isn't
> acceptable, to my mind. I had absolutely no margin of power in case I had to
> make any kind of maneuver, and just to make it more irritating I had to pull
> over all the time to let people by. Once I got over the top I had the
> low-oil pressure-alarm thing happen, which kind of flipped me out (I didn't
> know what caused it then).
>
> On another trip I took the van to LAX to pick up my in-laws: Four adults,
> two kids and a load of luggage. Again, no power to maneuver, which will
> really begin to loom large in your thinking if you're trying to navigate
> those freeways in any kind of traffic at all, and what is pretty much the
> top cruising speed for my Vgon was about 5 mph slower than average traffic.
> I was wishing for a traffic slowdown just so I didn't have to feel like I
> was gonna get rear-ended by every truck and SUV that climbed up my ass.
>
> I can get behind the idea of a gentle cruising speed and leaning out the
> window to smell the roses and all that, but the lack of available power for
> the conditions in which I have to drive (out of town, anyway) makes the
> stock Vgon flat out unsafe in my opinion. I don't like driving around with a
> chronic case of butthole pucker on top of regular 'ol WBXer paranoia. I
> don't want to spend the rest of my Vanagon ownership days peering under the
> rear end of the thing ever time I walk by, or keeping one eye on the temp
> gauge and one ear on the engine- I'm like that already and I've yet to have
> the engine break down on me.
>
> I know a good many of you folks have traveled from one end to the other
> successfully and happily with your WBXers but methinks the times have
> changed. Maybe it's more a matter of where I live and drive, I dunno, but we
> really like the van and we just don't feel comfortable taking it out of town
> anymore, so it's down to getting rid of it or converting it. So it's going
> to be converted- I don't know exactly to what, yet, but it will be. It's
> either that or get a mini-van, which I don't want and the conversion will be
> cheaper.
>
> I don't want to race anybody. I want to be able to go camping or to the lake
> without being outrun up the pass by old guys on bicycles. I want to be able
> to go to my dad's in AZ with some sense that the engine will get there in
> one piece and that I'll be able to climb the grades up to Flagstaff without
> having to worry about being flattened. I want to be able to drive on the LA
> freeways and feel like there's some juice underfoot if I need it. We have to
> run A/C probably 6/7 months of the year here and I'd like to be able to
> climb a hill without having to turn it off and making everybody sweat it
> out. I want an engine that I can maintain with what I consider a normal
> amount of attention, not hyper-micro obsession. I'd like to be able to hand
> my keys to somebody if they had to drive my van without giving them a 15
> minute lecture on the minutiae of piloting a Vanagon and infecting them with
> the paranoia (or just turning them off to the whole thing) in the process.
> I'd like to have something other than almost three-decades old technology
> that was a cobbled-together Frankenstein compromise to begin with, and for
> which I can get parts and some level of support for the next 15 years.
>
> I'd like different engine. I'd really like to have an entire drive train,
> but that's a flame war...er, subject for another day.
>
> Cya,
> Robert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Stewart" <fonman4277@COMCAST.NET>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 4:00 AM
> Subject: Re: Inside a Subi engine EJ22
>
>
> > OK so why spend $5k for an EJ22 to just drive at a same 65 MPH as we WXB
> > owners
> > do? I am trying to say even if you spend $9k for an EJ25 you will still be
> > out
> > run by those cars regardless you can or can ot race. Regardless you want
> > or you
> > do not want to race.
> >
> > OK, I think you have totally missed the point here of the Subaru (or any
> > other) conversion. It's not just about speed. Sure, you can do 70-80 with
> > your old WBX-but for how long? At what cost? How reliable is it? How fast
> > can you climb mountain grades? How long do think WBX parts are going to be
> > around? A vehicle worth $1,000.00? Yeah, it would be stupid to convert a
> > clapped out passenger van full of rust-but a nice condition Westy?
> > Absolutely worth it! Jeff
>
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