Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:06:39 -0700
Reply-To: David Kao <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David Kao <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: ECU and starting question
In-Reply-To: <7a0d6a660707171457x3bad8760p3483bea750a1a41f@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Anthony:
Try to discoonect the large wire from the alternator (the small one as well).
Your relay's switch should get power from the battery directly. Of course if
87 has a different wiring it will be differnt but I doubt it.
David
--- Anthony Kimmons <akimmons@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> The fuel pump has never gotten power. I had convinced myself it was
> the relays and ordered two new ones, but just while dabbling with it
> today noticed the alternator was loose and that led me to see how the
> regulator was shot. One of the brushes was completely worn and torn
> away from it's lead wire.
>
> I should have all these parts Friday, so I'll let you know what happens.
> Might be something completely different than either of these things!
> (Seems like the old van always has more surprises for me to figure out!)
>
>
>
>
> On 7/17/07, most david <dmost@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I'll check, but I think that the pulley is in good shape (i.e., no wobble).
> >
> > Is the problem with your '87 intermittenet, or does the fuel pump simply never get power?
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Anthony Kimmons <akimmons@GMAIL.COM>
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 3:39:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: ECU and starting question
> >
> >
> > Having a similar issue with my 87. No power to fuel pump, but wires
> > are good and there is power at the relay. Today, while waiting for new
> > relays to ship though, I noticed that my alternator pulley was
> > wobbling badly. Pulled it apart and noticed that the wobbling had
> > completely messed up one of the contacts on the regulator. Ordered a
> > new alternator today. Wondering if this could be the cause of the fuel
> > pump not getting the power it needs (?). Any thoughts on this?
> >
> >
> > On 7/17/07, most david <dmost@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Hi David. Thanks so much for checking out the wiring diagrams. I've swapped the fuel pump
> relay with a known working relay, and this didn't fix the problem. I'd like to check the
> wiring, and, though I have a Bentley, I'm still learning (or trying to remember) how to read the
> diagrams.
> > >
> > > Can anyone confirm if the 2.1 wiring ('87) is the same as the 1.9 description below (for my
> purposes)?
> > >
> > > Meanwhile, if the engine always starts and runs well once the fuel pump gets initial power
> upon turning the key, is it still possible that loose wires at the coil or the ignition module
> could be causing the problem.
> > >
> > > Thanks again for the much needed help.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: David Kao <dtkao0205@yahoo.com>
> > > To: most david <dmost@YAHOO.COM>; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 3:08:20 PM
> > > Subject: Re: ECU and starting question
> > >
> > >
> > > David, I am not trying to race to answer your question. But I can't help it.
> > >
> > > I just looked at my Bentley manual at the electrical diagram. There are
> > > two wires and one relay you want to check.
> > >
> > > The relay is naturally the fuel pump relay. Why two wires? one is supplying
> > > power to the relay and the other supplies power to the switch controlled
> > > by the relay. This switch if activated will power the pump. So if the pump
> > > doesn't pump, either the relay is not getting the power or the switch controlled
> > > by the relay is not getting power. These two wires are not connected together.
> > > Each has its own connection to somewhere else.
> > >
> > > The wire that feeds power to the switch in the relay is directly connected to
> > > the battery. It is always hot as long as the battery is connected. This is
> > > shown on the diagram. This makes sense as you don't want fuel to be cut off
> > > anytime you are driving.
> > >
> > > The wire that feeds power to the relay (which activates or deactivates the switch)
> > > is coming from the pin #4 of the transistor ignition control module. This pin
> > > also has a wire that connects itself to the ignition coil's terminal #15. On the
> > > diagram the wire that feeds the switch in the relay comes from this #15 terminal
> > > (instead of #4 on the ignition module). But they should be connected together
> > > on the #15 terminal of the coil. The coil's #1 terminal also has another wire that
> > > goes to the #1 pin of the ignition module.
> > >
> > > It looks like you may have a loose connection on the #15 terminal of the coil,
> > > or you have a loose connection on pin #4 on the ignition module. It's not ECU.
> > > But there are wires connecting the ECU and the ignition module. Still it's not
> > > likely to be an ECU problem.
> > >
> > > If you have a Bentley manual this is on the diagram. Well, I am talking about
> > > wasserboxer 1.9 engine. If you have a 2.1 it may be or many not be the same.
> > > If you have a subi... Oops, forget it. Don't mean to go there. Pardon me. No humor
> > > intended. Ask Benny if it is a subi.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > > --- most david <dmost@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I still haven't figured out why the fuel pump gets power intermittently when turning the
> > > > ignition key. For those of you that didn't read my posts from the last couple of weeks,
> I've
> > > > checked the relays, replaced the ignition switch, and tested for power at the fuel pump.
> When
> > > > the fuel pump gets power, the engine starts every time and runs well.
> > > >
> > > > A local mechanic is convinced that the ECU is causing the problem based on my
> characterization
> > > > of the problem. I asked a second mechanic about this, and he didn't think that this was
> likely.
> > > > I then told the second mechanic that I'm able to start the engine by pushing the van and
> > > > popping the clutch (on those rare occassions when turning the key on and off a number a of
> times
> > > > doesn't result in my hearing the fuel pump come on). Upon hearing this, the second
> mechanic
> > > > said that he's certain that the ECU isn't causing my problem.
> > > >
> > > > So, if I can start the engine by popping the clutch, does this definitely mean that the
> ECU is
> > > > not the source of my intermittent power at the fuel pump upon turning the key to the
> second (not
> > > > start) position?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the help,
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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