Date:         Fri, 27 Jul 2007 03:39:40 -0400
Reply-To:     Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Subject:      Re: Decisions,
              decisions which conversion was: Upon seeing Bostig's handiwork
In-Reply-To:  <ac1f198b0707270019q7c1a8b53nd7bdcc74fc32b9c8@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Ben,  I'm just as happy installing one of my conversions as you are
yours, except subies have been considered the "best" conversion for
vanagons for so long, should I not take a little excitement from the
fact that someone else agrees with our ideas to the point that they
invest in us by buying a conversion?   You are taking things way too
personally Ben. I've literally said nothing bad about anyone as far as
I can tell, but clearly you are offended,  and I'm sorry. I can indeed
see that you don't like competition, you don't even like comparison!
That's not me. I crave challenges.. it so happens that many challenges
arise in the form of competition, but I'd much rather be preventing
problems and creating value than competing to do it.. unfortunately I
can rarely now do one without the other. I am consoled by the fact
that I compete armed with as many facts, and as much demonstrable
arguments as I can to make it less selling and more academic so it's
enjoyable. If I say nothing, and make no comparisons, and ask no
questions, and challenge nobody, how do we get from old to new? How is
there any innovation? How are there better solutions?

Comparisons are very useful to people on this list. I fail to see a
negative unless there is incomplete or misinformation. You know a lot
about subies, you can help David with the answers to his questions,
and all the others reading with interest that don't speak up.

Jim Akiba



On 7/27/07, benoit <huotb@videotron.ca> wrote:
>
>  Jim, i remember a guy telling me on the phone about doing his first Subi
TO
> Bostig conversion!
>  Why were you so happy telling me so?
>
>  In hate competition, very much! That is all.
>
>  Anyway, your right, i didn't read right, my bad (must be my poor
English).
>
>  You know what, i hate that kind of stuff, comparison, it piss's me off.
>
>  I was ready to share a lot of stuff for the do it yourself kind of
folks...
> but i wonder now, again!
>
>  The funny thing is that over the past 6-7 years i have shared so many
stuff
> here, for free, just out of passion. nothing else.
>
>  But  now, my passion is different, some don't seem to like it, i'm kind
of
> lost? just because it's not about VW OEM engine? or neither Bostig???
> (believe me, i stil have my hands full with VW engines)
>
>  What is the problem here?
>  I have never seen John or Hans write something against Bostig, Tiico, or
> any other conversion, knowing Hans, impossible!
>
>  Anyway, i will stay out of that war. I will still post what i feel it's
> interesting for many, or at least for some.
>
>  You don't like it, don't read it.
>
>  One thing i still believe in, and i believe in it hard, it to keep our
van
> on the road, that include saving our old engine or conversion(S). I have
> built my van to go to Mexico and come back, believe me, it will do it! and
> that is over 13k miles
>  Unlike some of you, i don't write here for my business, far from it!
>
>  Ben
>
>
>
>
>  Jim Akiba wrote:
>
>  Actually Ben, you either misunderstand me, or missed the progression
> of the thread.
>
> David asked for opinions on which conversion for what reason. Hans
> corrected David's statement that the subie just edges out the zetec in
> power and then said "The 2.5 subaru does a lot more than 'slightly
> edge out' the basic Zetec, it's a 165 hp engine vs 130 hp for the
> Zetec."
>
> To which I then replied by asking one of you guys to bring a 2.5 to
> boston so we can dyno it so we can have actual numbers and really
> compare, waving factory number around gets us in the ballpark, but we
> can do much better very easily... we can simply test it and know the
> answer. I figured that you or Hans would have a 2.5 in montreal that
> would be perfect for it, a best specimen perhaps. A few other guys
> agreed, and then you replied apparently believing that I'm inciting a
> power war? Dunno man, you lost me there. Especially since the 2.5 is
> clearly the more powerful setup. I don't understand your defensive
> posture. If you think I don't respect the subie conversion, you're
> mistaken. Many many people have worked long and hard to make it a
> reality, an entire community in fact. And that's a great example of
> something that can only really happen in this group of enthusiasts.
> All I'm trying to do is get accurate comparison data so people can
> make choices with good information, I don't like speculation when it's
> so easily avoided. I'm sorry if I've offended you that is not my
> intention.
>
>
> Jim Akiba
>
>
> On 7/26/07, Benny boy <huotb@videotron.ca> wrote:
>
>
>  Jim, let's not go into the "my dad is stronger than your dad"...
>
> We are adult and i hope we know better, what you are doing is great for
the
> Vanagon comunity, i think the same for Vanaru/Subi.
>
> I know when i see passion! and you are passionate about your conversion,
and
> i fully respect that.
>
> You should do the same for Subi conversion, they are great for Vanagon.
> I know, i drive one, each day (already over 5k miles on it).
>
> I have over 150 pictures of everything... yes, everything, how to do one,
> what are the do's and don't, final touch, fine tuning. Nothing is perfect
in
> that strange vanagon conversion world.
>
> I think it's great that your getting list member to go Bostig, believe me.
>
> Let's not just start a war of power for nothing. Their is no reason to do
> so.
>
> The 2.5L is a great powefull engine, very reliable, smooth running, and
when
> this engine reach 4500 rpm (when the wasser engine start to die), it's
scary
> until 6800rpm. Those 40hp + over the old 2.2L are very welcome on those
> steep hills. Now, i won't talk about the 2006-2007 version with VVT...
>
> I just did 3 conversions / upgrade, that is enough for a guy like me to
know
> all there is to know about them. I have seen enough and i'm convince that
> the 2.5L (second gen. SOHC) is a very nice option for our loving van. Not
> the only one but a nice one. I ave fully rebuilt and modify a old 2.2L,
i'm
> simply impress with the very great and simple design of that little 2.2L.
> Now, tomorrow, we will see the monster i have built... when i have free
> time, i will get into an STI, or a WRX. I could use that 250hp... he he
he.
>
> Good fo all Subi lover's, i will never let any one here bash that great
> conversion.
>
> You have a great night, Ben
> http://www.benplace.com/85westy_2_mecanique2.htm
>
>
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:07:53 -0400, Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
wrote:
>
>
>
>  Actually Hans, you or benny should finally swing by Boston so we can
> finally get real numbers for the 2.5 output for comparison on the
> dyno, the offer has been outstanding for at least a year now! Crank
> numbers from the factory are great, but as we've shown they do not
> tend to equal "as installed in a vanagon" numbers. I agree though,
> the 2.5 should have quite a bit more power than the stock zetec, not
> just edging it out.. but I would like actual confirmation of exactly
> how much so it can be compared without speculation. The 2.2L was a
> great example of this, as it turns out a base zetec will accelerate
> the same van faster than an ej22 even with it's additional .2 liters.
> Partly because of lack of scavenging effect and lost efficiency in
> cylinder filling because of the subie's boxer layout, and partly
> because it weighs 60 lbs more. I'd love to measure what the SOHC 2.5
> subie puts down so we all know what we're talking about.
>
> Jim Akiba
>
> On 7/26/07, Hans Achter <hansachter@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>  Yes, either choice would be a huge improvement, and they are about the
same
> in ease of installation.
> The 2.5 subaru does a lot more than 'slightly edge out' the basic Zetec,
> it's a 165 hp engine vs 130 hp for the Zetec.
> -Hans
> http://www.vanaru.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Clarkson" <dvdclarksn@AOL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:25 AM
> Subject: Fwd: Decisions, decisions which conversion was: Upon seeing
> Bostig's handiwork
>
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Dvdclarksn@aol.com
> To: easywind1975@HOTMAIL.COM
> Sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:58 pm
> Subject: Decisions, decisions which conversion was: Upon seeing Bostig's
> handiwork
>
>
>
> I really have been impressed with Ben's testimonials of the Subaru
> conversion and now looking at Bostig Engineering's homepage I am equally
> impressed with the Zetech conversion. My Westfalia was rebuilt (very well
> I might add by The Bug Shop in Blacksburg, Va.) at 178,000 miles and now
> is approaching 250k. I must be realistic and realize that while it's
> running well that it probably can't be rebuilt to the same standards again
> and that either of the afore mentioned conversions would be a huge
> improvement. It seems that the 2.5 Subaru engine would slightly edge out
> the most basic Zetech in horsepower. Both have OBD II functions and
> probably get fairly close mileage. The Subaru would also be a bit more
> affordable. The Zetech does offer more niceties and?features that are an
> improvement that would provide safeguards for the engine and increased
> reliability in?what would be a?breakdown situation. So bottom line is
> which engine would be?the best investment for reliability and value? Has
> anyone on the list owned and driven both of these in the same or
> comparable vehicles???Is the Subaru an easier conversion as it would
> appear? Any informed opinions out there? I hope that this decision is?a
> ways off for me but I feel that I will attempt an install of one of these
> two options. Thanks to all who respond.
>
> ?
>
> David Clarkson
>
> 90 Westfalia (not a traitor to the brand-just a realist with a desire to
> keep my vehicle on the road)
>
>
>
>
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