Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:49:17 -0700
Reply-To: Bob Donalds <donalds1@VERIZON.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Bob Donalds <donalds1@VERIZON.NET>
Subject: Re: Power output of actual vans? (long)
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racers exaggerating HP numbers I cant imagine that
when the green flag drops the BS stops
I owned and have spent allot of time on both engine and chassis dynos great
for tuning BUT most dyno test are FULL throttle and who drives like that
besides Brady
I also did allot of chassis dyno testing with vanagons inconsistent at best
I did have one 84 van with a B Bob 2.1 engine that put out 75 HP at the rear
wheels every time I checked it.
that became my base line
numbers don't mean sh**
every dyno is different some even have Hollywood HP numbers
to even feel a differance in a vanagon you would need 10 more HP
I like an engine that spins without self destructing whats what I do in my
engines make it spin up
If you change the shift point 1k and the engine can take it you have
something more to work with
the Z tech shifts a 6500 RPM screw the factory HP numbers
whats the throttle responce like
whats the shift point
and will it stay together
Bob Donalds
Bosotn Engine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Hanson" <dhanson@GORGE.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 8:05 AM
Subject: Power output of actual vans? (long)
> Has anyone actually documented the output of the various engine combos in
> vans? I ask this with a LOT of experience with boasting car owners,
> optimistic aftermarket parts vendors, erroneous factory HP figures, etc.
> While involved in racing with the Porsche brand, HP was an often
> exaggerated
> and misrepresented figure, sometimes stated as 'at the crank' sometimes
> "at
> the wheels" and with all kinds of different 'correction factors' inserted
> before the bottom line. The same motor in the same chassis would produce
> varied numbers on different brand dynos, also.
> So, when we hear figures for all these motor/combos, what, exactly are we
> hearing? Where do the numbers come from? If someone simply quotes what
> the
> factory said the power figures were, for a particular type motor, brand
> new, it may not have much relation to 'that motor' in the van..
> For instance, Porsche, in it's sales verbiage in the '80s, understated
> the HP of the 928 motor by a significant amount. Said to have been done
> because 911 at that time was the company's designated high performance
> model
> and they didn't want to confuse their Base, 'The Faithful' (911s are the
> only "real" Porsche) by offering a Porsche with more acknowledged hp
> than
> the 911. And the Dodge Viper's hype gave HP output figures in the 450 hp
> range, but they figured it at the crank, not at the wheels..
> So when someone says.."Ha, the X-type conversion motor has 150hp (or
> whatever), while the WBX is only 90 or some such, it'd be interesting to
> hear where those numbers are coming from.
> Aftermarket 'speed-parts'...First thing done on a racecar during engine
> development is to do a 'baseline' dyno run, so you can see if what you
> modify actually does increase power..My 90GT Porsche 928 motor started
> life
> with some 285hp (on a Dynojet chassis dyno at sea level) and ended up (so
> far) with 587 on the same dyno. But during development, many bulls--t
> avenues were followed and proven to be no gain or even a hp loss, again
> verified on the dyno. "Seat-O-Pants" impressions are often mistaken, too.
> I made modifications that I would have sworn felt like 20-50 more hp, but
> sometimes were just noise and wishful thinking, when verified at the dyno,
> or with laptimes at a known track.
> Dyno sessions aren't too expensive or difficult to complete, especially
> since the 'tuner car' market has developed. There are dyno shops around
> in
> most larger metropolitan areas where you can get onto the roller for a
> half
> hour and get actual data for a nominal fee.
> I'd love to see the curves for the various types of conversion motors, to
> actually compare It's too easy to just 'say'.stuff about how a particular
> motor works..but the figures would be less subjective, if we had some.
> Don Hanson
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