Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 15:08:57 -0700
Reply-To: Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Power output of actual vans? (long)
In-Reply-To: <007801c7d171$ea0cb740$6701a8c0@valuedba5d11bc>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
So this is why I say seat-of-the-pants when I
wrote about my first Zetech Vanagon test drive.
I don't need much in the way of dyno testing to
make my decision, like most people.
If you go to buy a new car the saleman doesn't
say "hey , can we toss that on the dyno for you
today?
No, they say "take it for a test drive".
Robert
1982 Westfalia
--- Bob Donalds <donalds1@VERIZON.NET> wrote:
> racers exaggerating HP numbers I cant imagine
> that
> when the green flag drops the BS stops
>
> I owned and have spent allot of time on both
> engine and chassis dynos great
> for tuning BUT most dyno test are FULL throttle
> and who drives like that
> besides Brady
> I also did allot of chassis dyno testing with
> vanagons inconsistent at best
> I did have one 84 van with a B Bob 2.1 engine
> that put out 75 HP at the rear
> wheels every time I checked it.
> that became my base line
> numbers don't mean sh**
> every dyno is different some even have
> Hollywood HP numbers
>
> to even feel a differance in a vanagon you
> would need 10 more HP
> I like an engine that spins without self
> destructing whats what I do in my
> engines make it spin up
> If you change the shift point 1k and the engine
> can take it you have
> something more to work with
> the Z tech shifts a 6500 RPM screw the factory
> HP numbers
> whats the throttle responce like
> whats the shift point
> and will it stay together
>
> Bob Donalds
> Bosotn Engine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Hanson" <dhanson@GORGE.NET>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 8:05 AM
> Subject: Power output of actual vans? (long)
>
>
> > Has anyone actually documented the output of
> the various engine combos in
> > vans? I ask this with a LOT of experience
> with boasting car owners,
> > optimistic aftermarket parts vendors,
> erroneous factory HP figures, etc.
> > While involved in racing with the Porsche
> brand, HP was an often
> > exaggerated
> > and misrepresented figure, sometimes stated
> as 'at the crank' sometimes
> > "at
> > the wheels" and with all kinds of different
> 'correction factors' inserted
> > before the bottom line. The same motor in
> the same chassis would produce
> > varied numbers on different brand dynos,
> also.
> > So, when we hear figures for all these
> motor/combos, what, exactly are we
> > hearing? Where do the numbers come from? If
> someone simply quotes what
> > the
> > factory said the power figures were, for a
> particular type motor, brand
> > new, it may not have much relation to 'that
> motor' in the van..
> > For instance, Porsche, in it's sales
> verbiage in the '80s, understated
> > the HP of the 928 motor by a significant
> amount. Said to have been done
> > because 911 at that time was the company's
> designated high performance
> > model
> > and they didn't want to confuse their Base,
> 'The Faithful' (911s are the
> > only "real" Porsche) by offering a Porsche
> with more acknowledged hp
> > than
> > the 911. And the Dodge Viper's hype gave HP
> output figures in the 450 hp
> > range, but they figured it at the crank, not
> at the wheels..
> > So when someone says.."Ha, the X-type
> conversion motor has 150hp (or
> > whatever), while the WBX is only 90 or some
> such, it'd be interesting to
> > hear where those numbers are coming from.
> > Aftermarket 'speed-parts'...First thing done
> on a racecar during engine
> > development is to do a 'baseline' dyno run,
> so you can see if what you
> > modify actually does increase power..My 90GT
> Porsche 928 motor started
> > life
> > with some 285hp (on a Dynojet chassis dyno at
> sea level) and ended up (so
> > far) with 587 on the same dyno. But during
> development, many bulls--t
> > avenues were followed and proven to be no
> gain or even a hp loss, again
> > verified on the dyno. "Seat-O-Pants"
> impressions are often mistaken, too.
> > I made modifications that I would have sworn
> felt like 20-50 more hp, but
> > sometimes were just noise and wishful
> thinking, when verified at the dyno,
> > or with laptimes at a known track.
> > Dyno sessions aren't too expensive or
> difficult to complete, especially
> > since the 'tuner car' market has developed.
> There are dyno shops around
> > in
> > most larger metropolitan areas where you can
> get onto the roller for a
> > half
> > hour and get actual data for a nominal fee.
> > I'd love to see the curves for the various
> types of conversion motors, to
> > actually compare It's too easy to just
> 'say'.stuff about how a particular
> > motor works..but the figures would be less
> subjective, if we had some.
> > Don Hanson
>
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