Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 13:14:36 -0700
Reply-To: "Mike \"Rocket J Squirrel\" Elliott" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "Mike \"Rocket J Squirrel\" Elliott" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Labor, 28 hours, customer say, i have no money....
In-Reply-To: <CAEOIPKOOCKNBBDDDMBPKEBPAOAB.vw.doka@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I stand corrected. I've never paid upfront for work, but then I've never
requested custom work. Just routine repairs or maintenance stuff.
Nothing like a $10k job, that's for sure. I've never owned a car worth $10k.
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
KG6RCR
On 8/8/2007 12:45 PM VW Doka wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Not true about paying up front. It is common practice amongst shops to get
> "good faith" deposits prior to undertaking expensive repairs. We often have
> jobs here that exceed $10k and I will rarely undertake one (except for known
> customers) without a deposit.
>
> For example, we recently did a partial mechanical restoration on a '67 MB
> 280SL, the estimate was $12k and we required a $5k deposit.
>
> Another method often used is to bill as the work is progressing, or as
> expensive parts are ordered.
>
> Even after all these steps, you can still find the a**hole who will pay via
> credit card and then dispute the charge. Although, I have won all these
> disputes, it still holds up the funds for months.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
> Of Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 11:37 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Labor, 28 hours, customer say, i have no money....
>
>
> In California, one never pays up front. The auto shop provides a written
> estimate. The owner is not obliged at that point and may shop elsewhere.
> If the owner decides to get the work done, s/he signs it, agreeing to
> pay for the work. If the job becomes more expensive the shop must tell
> the owner before proceeding. When the work is done, the owner is
> expected to pay for the work. The invoice is generally presented by a
> large man holding a wrench in his greasy knuckles -- this is generally
> reason enough.
>
> This all applies to a business licensed to perform automobile repairs.
> If you take the van to some guy working out of his back yard, I have no
> idea what the legalities are.
>
> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
> 71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
> 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
> KG6RCR
>
> On 8/8/2007 8:57 AM David Kao wrote:
>
>> Maybe it is just me but I have never heard of paying
>> a deposit for a repair up front. Maybe this is between
>> you and your mechanic. Ever heard of a term called
>> Mechanic's Lien? If you are willing to pay up front
>> you may want to learn what Mechanic's Lien is.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Dave Vickery <davevickery@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>
>>> That's not the description of an honest mechanic in my mind, it is one
> that
>>> is living hand to mouth. Sorry, I don't mean to be insulting, but if a
>>> mechanic asked me to pay up front, I would know it was not a well funded
>>> (and I would assume) not a well run business, unless it had just started.
>>> I've heard of contractor's that do the same thing, and there it is
> probably
>>> more common, but I wouldn't not do it.
>>>
>>> I had Just Brakes ask for payment before they finished the job that was
>>> taking longer because they wanted to count the sales in that week's
> figures.
>>> That sets off questions in my mind that they have that much pressure to
>>> make numbers.
>>>
>>> Dave in Denver
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Kenneth Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
>>>> Reply-To: Kenneth Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: Re: Labor, 28 hours, customer say, i have no money....
>>>> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:03:17 -0400
>>>>
>>>> Ben,
>>>>
>>>> You have to cover yourself on these jobs. I always get at least a 50%
>>>> deposit on jobs larger than just a couple of hours. I make up an
>>>> estimate and try to estimate high because there is usually always
>>>> something that you didn't notice or can't see until you get it all
>>>> ripped apart. If you estimate high and come in under it the customer
>>>> thinks you are awesome (like Scotty on Star Trek), if it goes up a
>>>> little at least they are more prepared for the price. Once I get the
>>>> estimate typed up I can either email or just give it to the customer.
>>>> The customer approves it, I get the 50% deposit via cash, credit card,
>>>> even a check since you can wait for it to clear before you start the
>>>> job. If it is an extremely large job, I get 50% then at another point
>>>> that the customer and I agree to, I get another 25%, then the final 25%
>>>> on completion.
>>>>
>>>> Parts cost money. I don't have extra cash sitting around to buy all of
>>>> the parts that a customer might need for a large job. But if you get
>>>> the 50% deposit you should have at least enough to cover your parts and
>>>> keep things rolling until the job is done.
>>>>
>>>> A real customer that wants the work done will have no problem giving you
>>>> a deposit. Any changes that I have to make to the estimate that are
>>>> larger than $100 I call the customer and clear it with them first. When
>>>> it is all done we go for a ride together in the van and any questions he
>>>> (or she) has are addressed and then when they are happy, I get the rest
>>>> of the money and they get their invoice with "Paid in Full" on it. Now
>>>> everyone is happy. I am happy because I have done a great job and have
>>>> gotten my reward for doing so. The customer is happy because their baby
>>>> is back on the road and they can have more confidence in it.
>>>>
>>>> I have learned these painful lessons after doing this for almost 10
>>>> years now. But if you learn something from the lesson, then at least it
>>>> is not in vain.
>>>>
>>>> I am posting this to the list so that list members know how an honest
>>>> mechanic does business. Checks and balances on both parties. I even
>>>> keep the old parts until the customer comes and checks out the van. If
>>>> they request them, I can show the old parts that were removed and
>>>> replaced so that there are no questions. Again you have to cover
>>>> yourself. I recommend all female customers who are dealing with a shop
>>>> for the first time, request that they show you the old parts after
>>>> completing the job. Do this when you approve the estimate that way they
>>>> know to keep the old parts. Even if you have no clue what the parts are
>>>> that you are looking at, it lets folks know that you are going to check
>>>> on them and keep them accountable.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>> Ken Wilford
>>>> John 3:16
>>>> www.vanagain.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Benny boy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Me:
>>>>> Sir, you Air-Cool van is ready and working fine (new heads, pistons + a
>>>>> lot
>>>>> of small stuff), 130psi all around, temp is fine, tested. Ready to
> drive,
>>>>> don't forget, drive smooth, oil change between 700-1000km.
>>>>>
>>>>> Customer: Ok, thank so much. I can go camping now, how much?
>>>>>
>>>>> Me: 3399$
>>>>>
>>>>> Customer: ho, ok, can i make a check?
>>>>>
>>>>> Me: NO check, i had to many problems with those, sorry, cash, credit.
>>>>> Debit
>>>>> as a max of 1000$ per day just so you know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Customer: ho, i don't have enough on my credit card, what shoud i do?
>>>>> Maybe
>>>>> i have enough in my bank account???
>>>>>
>>>>> Me: Sir, i have spent 3.5 days in a row in your van, i have grease up
> to
>>>>> my
>>>>> a**... find a solution... CREDIT, CASH or NO van, sorry but i'm sure
> you
>>>>> understand my point of view.
>>>>>
>>>>> Customer: Well, i'm no sure how to find the money!
>>>>>
>>>>> Me: Sir, i told you before an approx of the total bill, you didn't say
>>>>> nothing, you said go ahead!
>>>>>
>>>>> Customer: well, i will find a way, how can i pay again?
>>>>>
>>>>> Me: Cash or credit (me sound VERY COLD)
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> The conclusion...
>>>>> This is not the first time this happen to me, far from it, what the
> hell
>>>>> is
>>>>> the problem with people like that??????? i work my ass off... and this
> is
>>>>> the answer i get.
>>>>>
>>>>> Frustration! yes, it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> We always blame the business men, the customers is always right...
> yea..
>>>>> sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> I tell you all because if this happen to me.. i'm sure some of you did
> so
>>>>> one day!!! think twice before doing it again!
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben
>>>>> http://www.benplace.com/bjp3.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Booking a flight? Know when to buy with airfare predictions on MSN
> Travel.
>>> http://travel.msn.com/Articles/aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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