Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 16:13:24 -0700
Reply-To: David Kao <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David Kao <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Labor, 28 hours, customer say, i have no money....
In-Reply-To: <CAEOIPKOOCKNBBDDDMBPGECJAOAB.vw.doka@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I had my roof replaced by a contractor for $12k 3 years ago.
I wasn't asked for a deposit. No. I never had a car repair that
cost more than a few grands. Actually I got a quote for my
Volvo engine rebuild for over $3k plus labor. There wasn't
a requirement of a deposit either.
I learned about the law of Mechanic's Lien. It is a state level
law that is for protecting the business side, not customer side.
Because of the law a customer really does not need to pay deposit
any more. If customers don't pay they lose their car or their house.
But on the other hand fraudulent business practices often end up
losing their licenses.
I have heard about contractors took deposit and ran or did not
do quality job as promised. For car repair I will never pay deposit
for jobs cost only a few grands. More than a few grands I will sell
the car.
I guess for states that do not have a Mechanic's Lien law then a deposit
requirement may be more practical.
David
--- VW Doka <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> David,
>
> Have you had a lot of $10k+ work done? I think you'd be hard pressed to
> find a shop that would do $10k+ worth of work on your vehicle with nothing
> more than your word that you'll pay. Often times, repairs of this magnitude
> require a great deal of cash outlay for the parts, etc., and if the shop did
> not know you personally, they would be foolish to take the job and risk
> ending up with a dead-beat.
>
> It's easy to look at this from only the consumer side, but once you've been
> burned by a dead-beat customer, you learn ways to protect yourself.
>
> Deposits and payments as you go are not limited to shops, it is common in
> consulting, construction and (please forgive me) with lawyers.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
> Of David Kao
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:47 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Labor, 28 hours, customer say, i have no money....
>
>
> Disputes between repair shops and customers are probably the number one
> legal fights in court these days. To avoid possible ripoffs you really
> do not want to pay anything upfront. I have never been asked for it and
> if asked I would take my business elsewhere.
>
> Always pay with a credit card. You could fight against fraudulent repairs
> by requesting a dispute with your credit card bank. They will do a reverse
> charge for you but you will be responsible for legal consequences caused by
> the reverse charge. Of course you only do that with sufficient evidence
> that the repair was fraudulent.
>
> David
>
>
> --- "Mike \"Rocket J Squirrel\" Elliott" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> > I stand corrected. I've never paid upfront for work, but then I've never
> > requested custom work. Just routine repairs or maintenance stuff.
> > Nothing like a $10k job, that's for sure. I've never owned a car worth
> $10k.
> >
> > Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
> > 71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
> > 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
> > 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
> > KG6RCR
> >
> > On 8/8/2007 12:45 PM VW Doka wrote:
> >
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > Not true about paying up front. It is common practice amongst shops to
> get
> > > "good faith" deposits prior to undertaking expensive repairs. We often
> have
> > > jobs here that exceed $10k and I will rarely undertake one (except for
> known
> > > customers) without a deposit.
> > >
> > > For example, we recently did a partial mechanical restoration on a '67
> MB
> > > 280SL, the estimate was $12k and we required a $5k deposit.
> > >
> > > Another method often used is to bill as the work is progressing, or as
> > > expensive parts are ordered.
> > >
> > > Even after all these steps, you can still find the a**hole who will pay
> via
> > > credit card and then dispute the charge. Although, I have won all these
> > > disputes, it still holds up the funds for months.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
> > > Of Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 11:37 AM
> > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: Re: Labor, 28 hours, customer say, i have no money....
> > >
> > >
> > > In California, one never pays up front. The auto shop provides a written
> > > estimate. The owner is not obliged at that point and may shop elsewhere.
> > > If the owner decides to get the work done, s/he signs it, agreeing to
> > > pay for the work. If the job becomes more expensive the shop must tell
> > > the owner before proceeding. When the work is done, the owner is
> > > expected to pay for the work. The invoice is generally presented by a
> > > large man holding a wrench in his greasy knuckles -- this is generally
> > > reason enough.
> > >
> > > This all applies to a business licensed to perform automobile repairs.
> > > If you take the van to some guy working out of his back yard, I have no
> > > idea what the legalities are.
> > >
> > > Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
> > > 71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
> > > 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
> > > 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
> > > KG6RCR
> > >
> > > On 8/8/2007 8:57 AM David Kao wrote:
> > >
> > >> Maybe it is just me but I have never heard of paying
> > >> a deposit for a repair up front. Maybe this is between
> > >> you and your mechanic. Ever heard of a term called
> > >> Mechanic's Lien? If you are willing to pay up front
> > >> you may want to learn what Mechanic's Lien is.
> > >>
> > >> David
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- Dave Vickery <davevickery@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> That's not the description of an honest mechanic in my mind, it is one
> > > that
> > >>> is living hand to mouth. Sorry, I don't mean to be insulting, but if
> a
> > >>> mechanic asked me to pay up front, I would know it was not a well
> funded
> > >>> (and I would assume) not a well run business, unless it had just
> started.
> > >>> I've heard of contractor's that do the same thing, and there it is
> > > probably
> > >>> more common, but I wouldn't not do it.
> > >>>
> > >>> I had Just Brakes ask for payment before they finished the job that
> was
> > >>> taking longer because they wanted to count the sales in that week's
> > > figures.
> > >>> That sets off questions in my mind that they have that much pressure
> to
> > >>> make numbers.
> > >>>
> > >>> Dave in Denver
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> From: Kenneth Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
> > >>>> Reply-To: Kenneth Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
> > >>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > >>>> Subject: Re: Labor, 28 hours, customer say, i have no money....
> > >>>> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:03:17 -0400
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Ben,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> You have to cover yourself on these jobs. I always get at least a
> 50%
> > >>>> deposit on jobs larger than just a couple of hours. I make up an
> > >>>> estimate and try to estimate high because there is usually always
> > >>>> something that you didn't notice or can't see until you get it all
> > >>>> ripped apart. If you estimate high and come in under it the customer
> > >>>> thinks you are awesome (like Scotty on Star Trek), if it goes up a
> > >>>> little at least they are more prepared for the price. Once I get the
> > >>>> estimate typed up I can either email or just give it to the customer.
> > >>>> The customer approves it, I get the 50% deposit via cash, credit
> card,
> > >>>> even a check since you can wait for it to clear before you start the
> > >>>> job. If it is an extremely large job, I get 50% then at another
> point
> > >>>> that the customer and I agree to, I get another 25%, then the final
> 25%
> > >>>> on completion.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Parts cost money. I don't have extra cash sitting around to buy all
> of
> > >>>> the parts that a customer might need for a large job. But if you get
> > >>>> the 50% deposit you should have at least enough to cover your parts
> and
> > >>>> keep things rolling until the job is done.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> A real customer that wants the work done will have no problem giving
> you
> > >>>> a deposit. Any changes that I have to make to the estimate that are
> > >>>> larger than $100 I call the customer and clear it with them first.
> When
> > >>>> it is all done we go for a ride together in the van and any questions
> he
> > >>>> (or she) has are addressed and then when they are happy, I get the
> rest
> > >>>> of the money and they get their invoice with "Paid in Full" on it.
> Now
> > >>>> everyone is happy. I am happy because I have done a great job and
> have
> > >>>> gotten my reward for doing so. The customer is happy because their
> baby
> > >>>> is back on the road and they can have more confidence in it.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I have learned these painful lessons after doing this for almost 10
> > >>>> years now. But if you learn something from the lesson, then at least
>
=== message truncated ===
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