Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:16:35 -0400
Reply-To: -------- <VW4X4@VERIZON.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: -------- <VW4X4@VERIZON.NET>
Subject: Re: cracked AMC heads question
In-Reply-To: <46E559B3.8070303@comcast.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
"this is just a marketing ploy to add value"
DEFINATELY NOT a marketing ploy. I've had/have
several AMC heads that the valves are mushroomed. Can't
remove them from the head without grinding the rocker end
round again. This was just cheap junk.
Kenneth Wilford wrote:
> I have sold many, many AMC heads with the valves that come with them
> over the years. I have also installed many of them for customers.
> Maybe there was a problem several years ago with the valves, but I have
> never had a problem with the stock valves that come with the heads. If
> the other suppliers were telling the full story they would tell you that
> they are taking out valves that they say have quality issues only to put
> back in valves that are not OE anyway (so who really knows how much
> better quality of a valve that they are?). The OE valves are so
> expensive that you couldn't use them and still sell the heads for what
> these folks are selling them for. So to me it is one of those "You
> should buy it from me because everyone else is selling crap" stories
> that is mostly smoke and mirrors. Now if they were putting in OE valves
> I would have no problem with them decrying the quality of the valves
> that come in the AMC heads and charging a premium for changing the
> valves. If they aren't doing that I feel that this is just a marketing
> ploy to add value to a product just because it came from a certain store
> when in fact everyone else is selling a similar product for a cheaper
> price. The place out West sells many unique and cool products that only
> they have and that is good. However just because you paid extra for a
> head at this Western store (or any other vendor) doesn't necessarily
> mean that it is better. Even when you have pictures and a nice
> technical story to go with it.
>
> Just my opinion,
> Ken Wilford
> John 3:16
> www.vanagain.com
>
> dylan friedman wrote:
>
>> Bottomline, if you are going to spend the money on brand new AMC
>> heads....make sure you replace the stock valves. Read up at GoWesty
>> and Boston Bob on this subject.
>>
>> With that amount spent on heads, it doesn't make sense to not freshen
>> up the bottomend bearing, replace water pump, oil pump........you get
>> the picture.
>>
>> At this point you will have spent about 3/4 of the cost of a 2.5
>> Subaru conversion or Zetec if you do it yourself.
>>
>> The wbx is get if it is running strong, but I would transplant if you
>> want true reliabliity.
>>
>> dylan's 2cents
>>
>> Chris Lisica <wavanagon@GMAIL.COM> wrote: This van will eventually be
>> my wife's daily driver, hopefully. That's my
>> goal. So I really want to get the engine in tip top shape and have
>> minimal
>> rescues. It has an auto trans axle that is fairly new so once the
>> engine is
>> dialed in, it should be very reliable. The previous owner spent a
>> fortune
>> throwing parts at the van, so lots of things are new.
>>
>> On to the heads. So, in your opinion/experiences, engine performance is
>> restored to new by buying new heads/cylinders/pistons? I'm a little
>> hesitant
>> to do the whole shebang because the previous owner said that it ran very
>> well prior to the overheating issues. His exact words were, "Very
>> strong".
>> So based on that, I'm hoping I can get away w/ good used heads and
>> see what
>> happens. But at the same time, I don't want to do this 10K miles down
>> the
>> road. Thoughts?
>>
>> Thanks for the input..
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On 9/9/07, David Kao
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> It's really a question how well you want to rebuild your engine.
>>> A crack between the valves may be fine for a while but eventually
>>> the head will fall apart. You will have to take it apart again
>>> to deal with it eventually.
>>>
>>> If you want the engine back to what it was but with no crack on
>>> the head to worry about then buy a used one that has no crack and no
>>> damaged valves and valve seats. Just do a valve job and put the engine
>>> back together. This may last a long time and the engine performance
>>> will reflect its mileage.
>>>
>>> But if you really want your engine rebuilt back to top performance
>>> the best strategy is to spend for a pair of new heads. Replace the
>>> piston/cylinder liners as well. If everything is done properly the
>>> engine will perform well over another 100k without giving you
>>> performance
>>> issues.
>>>
>>> I just had my 1.9 engine rebuilt. I put in a new set of liners only
>>> because
>>> the heads were replaced 20k miles ago by a VW dealer under warranty. I
>>> first
>>> thought the heads were rebuilt. But I found out that the heads were
>>> actually
>>> new VW heads. After 3k miles of break-in I am extremely happy with the
>>> result
>>> of the rebuild. The engine is totally cool now. I am glad that I had
>>> the
>>> new liners in it.
>>>
>>> An 87 Westy is worth a full restore if I were you. Good luck.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>> --- Chris Lisica wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yeah, sorry, I'm talking about the cracks between the valves. I've
>>>> heard
>>>> that a hairline fracture is acceptable, but that one in my picture is
>>>>
>>>>
>>> pretty
>>>
>>>
>>>> big. A leak test would be good.
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm, thanks for the advice. Some of those measurement numbers are
>>>>
>>>>
>>> scary! I
>>>
>>>
>>>> have a line on a used set of German heads for $200, I may just go that
>>>> route.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> On 9/9/07, Scott Daniel - Shazam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You're talking about the cracks between the two valves ?
>>>>> Totally normal.
>>>>> You 'could' get them pressure tested if you're worried,
>>>>> You can also peen the cracks shut with a hammer and punch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fwiw - ..judging by the corrosion where the water gasket touches this
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> head
>>>
>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> perhaps you might get away with head gaskets only.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would also test for valve sealing by filling the ports with
>>>>> gasoline
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>>
>>>>> kerosene, and see if they leak. I usually find at least one exhaust
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> valve
>>>
>>>
>>>>> leaking.
>>>>> Then I have a machine shop do a valve job.
>>>>>
>>>>> And what I wanted to say about AMC heads - fwiw, I have one.....that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> I
>>>
>>>
>>>>> installed new, and it didn't last, for head gasket sealing .....that
>>>>> particular head is so far out of 'dimension' it's sick. Pure
>>>>> junk. And
>>>>> it was factory new. So I'd be careful about AMC heads, if nothing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> else.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> I'm finding it necessary to check how much the water gasket gets
>>>>> compressed.
>>>>> By my measurements the water gasket is 3.7 mm thick.
>>>>> Put the head on temporarily ( with metal sealing rings at the top of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>>>> barrels ) and measure the water gasket gap.
>>>>> Iv'e seen it be 3.7 mm - thus no compression on the water gasket -
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> and it
>>>
>>>
>>>>> leaked after a thousand miles.
>>>>> Iv'e seen it vary , like 4 mm on one end, 7 mm on the other, and so
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> forth.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> And I'd be real careful with AMC heads.
>>>>> I'd rather have a good set of used non-amc heads and rebuild them,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> then
>>>
>>>
>>>>> install them, than use AMC heads, unless the measure out nicely.
>>>>> Scott
>>>>> www.turbovans.com
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> Behalf Of
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Chris Lisica
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 7:35 PM
>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>> Subject: cracked AMC heads question
>>>>>
>>>>> Volks,
>>>>>
>>>>> After purchasing my wife's 87 Westy project, I'm finally getting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> started.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> knew the heads were messed up, but I was hoping for a simple head
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> gasket
>>>
>>>
>>>>> job. Upon closer inspection, and a few pictures in macro focus mode,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> there
>>>
>>>
>>>>> appears to be a big crack on the one side. Any opinions? Is this head
>>>>> reusable? What could cause such a large crack? The pics:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://wavanagon.googlepages.com/amcheads
>>>>>
>>>>> Please help enlighten an aspiring Vanagon mechanic. Thanks for any
>>>>> advice/input/feedback/links/etc.....
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Chris
>>>>> 88 Vanagon GL (daily driver)
>>>>> 87 Westfalia (in progress)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chris
>>>> 88 Vanagon GL (daily driver)
>>>> 87 Westfalia (in progress)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who
>>> knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>>> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris
>> 88 Vanagon GL (daily driver)
>> 87 Westfalia (in progress)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
|