Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2007 09:04:01 -0700
Reply-To: Stephen Grisanti <bike2vcu@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stephen Grisanti <bike2vcu@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Carbon fiber van tops...?
In-Reply-To: <46E415E9.6040006@cs.uchicago.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I think it began with weight reduction and degenerated
into bling.
Stephen
--- Wesley Pegden <wes@CS.UCHICAGO.EDU> wrote:
> Something I've missed in this whole discussion...
> what would be the point? Is the idea that the
> current tops aren't
> strong enough??
> Or is this like wanting a gold-plated pop-top?
>
> -Wes
>
> Stephen Grisanti wrote:
> > "Economies of scale" is what that is called.
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> > --- Max Wellhouse <maxjoyce@ipa.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Took the words right out of my mouth!!
> >>
> >> At 12:21 AM 9/8/2007, Stephen Grisanti wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Your pricing MIGHT be a little off. You can
> get
> >>>> carbon fiber hoods for about $800.
> >>>>
> >>> How much do you think it cost to make that first
> >>>
> >> Civic
> >>
> >>> carbon hood and how many of them are out there?
> >>>
> >> The
> >>
> >>> second was cheaper, the 100th way cheaper and
> the
> >>> 1000th maybe $400, so they can sell it for $800.
> >>>
> >>> Stephen
> >>>
> >>> --- "Chris S." <mrpolak@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Live it to the list to tear any idea to shreds.
> >>>>
> >>>> Your pricing MIGHT be a little off. You can
> get
> >>>> carbon fiber hoods for about $800.
> >>>>
> >>>> Max Wellhouse <maxjoyce@IPA.NET> wrote: $500?
> >>>>
> >> The
> >>
> >>>> last time I checked, graphite cloth in a 6 oz,
> >>>> weight was
> >>>> selling for about $75/yd. I don't remember if
> >>>>
> >> that
> >>
> >>>> was 38"wide cloth
> >>>> or 60", but the fact of the mater is that
> you're
> >>>> looking at maybe 3
> >>>> layers minimum to make that top stiff enough
> >>>>
> >> unless
> >>
> >>>> you took some
> >>>> sort of foam core stiffener and that carbon top
> >>>> would likely not
> >>>> survive much of a hail storm either. The foam
> >>>>
> >> core
> >>
> >>>> stuff ain't cheap
> >>>> either. d. Something with that many
> >>>>
> >> convolutions
> >>
> >>>> would almost have
> >>>> to be vacuum-bagged and I'd want a couple of
> >>>>
> >> layers
> >>
> >>>> of kevlar under
> >>>> the foam core just for strength. The kevlar is
> a
> >>>> bargain at like
> >>>> $15-18 a yard if you get it from
> >>>> www.sweetcomposites.com Then
> >>>> there's the cost of making the mold for the top
> >>>> after you make the
> >>>> male plug to make the mold from. The Westy top
> >>>> wouldn't be rigid
> >>>> enough to mold.
> >>>>
> >>>> Let's see, that first carbon top would cost
> >>>>
> >> about
> >>
> >>>> $12,000, and the
> >>>> next one maybe only $2,000 if you di all the
> >>>>
> >> work
> >>
> >>>> yourself.
> >>>>
> >>>> DM&FS
> >>>>
> >>>> At 10:34 PM 9/6/2007, Don Hanson wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> a Van top from carbon fiber, while it would be
> >>>>>
> >> very
> >>
> >>>> trick, from a practical
> >>>>
> >>>>> standpoint makes little sense. Unless you're
> >>>>>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >>>> Gates or Jay Leno or
> >>>>
> >>>>> someone with lots of money to spend on a
> >>>>>
> >>>> questionable project. The amount
> >>>>
> >>>>> of material you'd use to make the
> >>>>>
> >> part...fiberglass
> >>
> >>>> or carbon fiber.. is a
> >>>>
> >>>>> lot. Glass fabric is a little heavier and not
> >>>>>
> >>>> quite so stiff, but it is
> >>>>
> >>>>> about 1/100th the cost of carbon fabric..In a
> >>>>>
> >> piece
> >>
> >>>> as large as a Westie
> >>>>
> >>>>> style roof, you might save oh, say 20-30 lbs,
> >>>>>
> >> by
> >>
> >>>> using carbon fiber rather
> >>>>
> >>>>> than the normal glass, but you'd probably
> >>>>>
> >> spend
> >>
> >>>> $500 doing it...You could
> >>>>
> >>>>> save almost that much weight just by
> >>>>>
> >> vacuum-bagging
> >>
> >>>> a fiberglass lay up and
> >>>>
> >>>>> being very careful with the fabrication..
> >>>>> Now, in a racecar or a bicycle or an
> >>>>>
> >> America's
> >>
> >>>> cup yacht or an
> >>>>
> >>>>> airplane...that kinda dollar per lb. may be
> >>>>>
> >> worth
> >>
> >>>> it..but for the top of a
> >>>>
> >>>>> Vanagon? Prolly not to normal humans...
> >>>>> Don Hanson
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------
> >>>> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you
> >>>> sell.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
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> >
> >
> >
>
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