Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:29:15 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: How to do a head reseal on a diesel vanagon?
In-Reply-To: <46EFF707.9010802@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi. Ok, cool, I didn't mean to be a smart ass. I thought about it for a
while last night. It's a pretty broad question, but we'll suppose someone
has a stocker 1.6NA and DZ transaxle, And they'd like to end up with a 1.9NA
and a DK trans, and everything working nicely.
What I find is I end up restoring areas of vanagons. I don't do slam
dunk repair. Basically putting in a 1.9 where a 1.6 was shouldn't be a
whole lot more complicated than putting in a 1.6. And, the job goes like
this - remove all the stuff from the 1.6 that'll be used on the 1.9 - pan,
injection pump, flywheel, alternator , manifolds, all that stuff. Inspect
and clean all that stuff. That's several hours right there - 6 hours min.
Then it's install it all on the new engine. And each part, put on the old
ratty muffler, or a new one ? Put some tired looking possibly rusty part
back on, like a bracket, or clean and paint it ? I thought about how many
hours work - That work could take me 30 hours, especially swapping a trans.
And then it keeps going that way - I can't swap a trans without also
inspecting and lubing, and maybe adjusting the shift linkage. Then perhaps
the inner CV joints are dry, so you wonder about the outers, and perhaps get
into that. My project have a habit of expanding like that. I just
basically 'fine tune' the whole area that I'm working on. Take that 30 hours
labor. Times 60 that's $ 1,800. I know quite well that by the time I got
done with a whole engine and trans install, including all the details like
synthetic gear oil in the trans and on and on - 1,800 bucks labor is
extremely fair. Heck, I've spent 8 hours just fine tuning and sorting
something out AFTER it was all installed and hooked up and basically 'done.'
- and I get really really good results in the end. Up to 2,500 labor
counting the engine and trans would not even be too much, and the result
would be very rewarding.
That's the labor side. I'd quote that as 1,800 to under 2,500. If
other things come up in the job, I just inform the customer, and let them
choose. I just tell them, even send them pics of how good the clutch is
say, and do we want to use that over, or put in a new one. I try very hard
to anticipate all possible things in advance, so I don't have to contact
them and say 'there's this whole other area, it's a whole bunch more now'
.....I work hard to not do that. And I NEVER tell them when it's time to get
the van and pay 'oh, well, it was harder than I thought, now it's 800 more
than I said.' I NEVER do that. I like a deposit, maybe around 40 % of the
total, If it's a longer project, pay as you go.
I'm not sure where you get 1.9NA's these days. I can get great
1.9TD's. I could get one of those and de-turbo it. Works just fine that
way. Lasts super well, a turbo engine running normally aspirated.
The trans - either luck out and find a good used one, or I have a
rebuildable core in stock right now. So whatever expense that is.
In the case of used engines and transmissions - not always, depends
on what I can get - but often I prefer the customer to supply, if it's going
to be a used trans - I prefer them to supply it. I'll help them determine if
the used one they've found is any good or not - talk to the junk yard for
them say. On these used 1.9TD's I can get, the one I helped some guys put
in was a great engine - 40K miles on a used euro 1.9TD - I would feel safe
supplying one of those.
Let's take theoretically a used 1.9TD engine, plus sell my DK core
to the customer, have it rebuilt, and put that all together.
Engine - 3,200 ( possibly as high as 3,500, 'depending' )
Trans core - 400
Rebuild trans - 700
Labor - 2,500
'other parts' - 600 ( hard to guestimate this one, depends on a lot - but
there are lots of small parts, new timing belt, glow plugs, perhaps new
muffler, fluids etc - I just picked 600 as a budget to work with for all the
other small parts )
those numbers add up to 7,400, that's with rebuilt DK trans and no core to
start with.
Put in a used trans instead, and it drops to 6,700.
That also included a pretty expensive engine- 3,200.
Shipping of the engine isn't included in that number, but it might fit in
the over all guestimate. Those are the kinds of numbers my projects get to.
But, my work is like art work even - there's nothing rusty or jagged or
loose, or cracked or worn out or anything like that when I'm done. It's
ready for a whole 'next 8 years or so' . If the throttle cable is old and
sticky - I can't turn it out that way. I don't put the funky two- belts-
with- shims fan belt system back on - I do a Single Belt Conversion.
If someone wants me to do slam dunk repair - just slap in a 1.9 as fast as I
can, I suppose I could do that. Not very rewarding, and they sure don't get
to complain to me about things not being perfect, or working perfectly. .
When I do it my 'normal way' - it's nice, and will last quite well too.
So there you are, short answer is 6ish at the lower end for a very complete
job with a 1.9 NA engine and a good used or rebuilt DK trans, and the whole
thing working perfectly.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Drillock [mailto:drillock@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:04 AM
To: Scott Daniel - Shazam
Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: How to do a head reseal on a diesel vanagon?
No, not a test, a serious question. I mostly only work on family
vehicles and not for money. People sometimes ask about diesel engine
upgrades and as you said the 1.9NA is the easiest way to go. I wanted to
know what you or some other pro might charge for such an upgrade. It is
getting very hard to find decent used 1.6NA stuff anymore.
Mark
Scott Daniel - Shazam wrote:
> Mark, is this a 'test' ?
> I would think that you especially would be quite familiar with what
> engines and transmissions cost, and how much labor is involved. Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> Behalf Of Mark Drillock
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 5:42 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: How to do a head reseal on a diesel vanagon?
>
> So, how much do you estimate for a 1.9NA engine and the tranny change,
> parts and labor to a limping along 82 Diesel Vanagon?
>
> Mark
>
> Scott Daniel - Shazam wrote:
>
>
>>Hi.
>>A 1.9NA would be the most gain for the price, and 'almost' isn't an
>>engine
>>conversion- very minor issues, big gain for the cost and not much
>>difficulty.
>>
>>If this van has the stock 82 diesel 4 speed trans, the DZ - Need to
>
> change
>
>>that too, if it's to be very good.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Drillock [mailto:drillock@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:04 AM
To: Scott Daniel - Shazam
Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: How to do a head reseal on a diesel vanagon?
No, not a test, a serious question. I mostly only work on family
vehicles and not for money. People sometimes ask about diesel engine
upgrades and as you said the 1.9NA is the easiest way to go. I wanted to
know what you or some other pro might charge for such an upgrade. It is
getting very hard to find decent used 1.6NA stuff anymore.
Mark
Scott Daniel - Shazam wrote:
> Mark, is this a 'test' ?
> I would think that you especially would be quite familiar with what
engines
> and transmissions cost, and how much labor is involved.
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Mark Drillock
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 5:42 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: How to do a head reseal on a diesel vanagon?
>
> So, how much do you estimate for a 1.9NA engine and the tranny change,
> parts and labor to a limping along 82 Diesel Vanagon?
>
> Mark
>
> Scott Daniel - Shazam wrote:
>
>
>>Hi.
>>A 1.9NA would be the most gain for the price, and 'almost' isn't an engine
>>conversion- very minor issues, big gain for the cost and not much
>>difficulty.
>>
>>If this van has the stock 82 diesel 4 speed trans, the DZ - Need to
>
> change
>
>>that too, if it's to be very good.
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