Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 17:13:03 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Replacement AFM technology
In-Reply-To: <46F6F546.4070005@charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I disagree. When I started doing turbo diesel conversions in the mid to
early 90's......
It was the same thought then - maybe there's not a whole lot of future in
vanagons.
What I observe these days however, is near endless vanagon appreciation and
use and
Development.
Yes, most definitely it can indeed be very challenging to fine a shop that's
competent on vanagons if they are not a vanagon specialist.
The number of vendors, shops, engine conversion shops, people who develop
aftermarket retrofit stuff - improved cooling system pipes, for
example.....there's lots of that going on.
Vanagons are unique ............completely unique almost .....good size box,
not so big you can't push start it or fit into a small nook for stealth
camping.....fairly good era of technology ....late 80's tech ( engine
management wise ) is not bad - not so crazy complicated that you can't
interact with it, like a 96 or later car for example.....pretty easy to work
on mostly,
Pretty well made - the engine is the weakest part ....all the rest of a
vanagon - the suspension, body, the trans, the electrical system - all that
is pretty decent.
There are LOTS of reasons vanagons are great, and versatile, and
adaptable....I don't see things slowing down at all.
About the biggest issue I see is for your ordinary non-auto-technical person
is finding competent repair. Which is a bitch no matter what kind of car
you drive frankly - I swear, I might write a book about it sometime -
really, in the car repair and service industry .....the common standard is
pretty low - slap parts on it fast, get the money, sell any repair you can
justify, guess at the parts needed maybe, poor workmanship etc.
MOST of the work I see done on cars sucks............ok, maybe only a solid
50 % of it ....can't tell you how many things I find misaligned, not
engaged, wrong bolts, missing bolts ...on and on and on...
The vans themselves though - not bad at all.
Plus possibly the world's largest 'family' of car enthusiasts and modifiers
etc.
Take a syncro westy - this has been recognized for years....you simply can
not get all that a syncro camper westy offers in that size package, at any
price, not in the US anyway.
And, given that even if such a thing did exist....and if it did, new it
would be over 60,000 dollars at least, and you couldn't work on it !
That makes a syncro westy look pretty attractive . Around 20K for a good
used running one....fabulous AWD performance ( though Syncro's do 'like
money' for sure, and some parts of them are hard to work on until you know
the tricks and get used them ) .....nice size vehicle, you can work on it
yourself.....etc.
No, vanagons aren't 'going away.' Parts ....well, the dealers are very lame
about parts for vanagons, generally speaking .....after market, and
specialists though ...no shortage of parts at all. Just need to know what
you're doing.
The next model - Eurovan - they sorta 'lost it' there - they have their
advantages, like aerodynamics, ABS brakes, air bags etc....but they 'like
money' too sometimes, a lot. Very low ground clearance - my hunch on that
is vehicle stability standards btw.....like how easily a vehicle tips over
.....just my guess that they had to make that car lower, either that...
And vw and car companies do this all the time- they get a perfect niche
going, then they blow it by changing what they've been doing so well all
along.
Then there's Sprinter Vans- I call them the new vanagon.
30 to 60 grand, Big huge ole thing. Not All wheel drive etc. .....
so where does that leave the common VW van enthusiast ? - Vanagons,
especially 85/86 and later, and Syncro's for those that need/want AWD - in
good shape actually !
Show me a viable substitute, that you can work on, that you can modify,
that's not too big or fuel thirsty ( like sure, there are dodge vans, or
ford diesel campers on pick-up trucks....they have their place....probably
very, very reliable and durable.....but fuel thirsty, a bit big and heavy
etc, and expensive to acquire often. ) ....
So show me what can beat the combination of what a vanagon offers, that's
affordable,
And you can work on yourself, and modify easily, and is not too big or
expensive.
And there are a LOT of them around - vanagons. I'd say we're smart to
preserve these fine vehicles....
So that we CAN have something we can work on ourselves. Big Brother is
going to take away cars that YOU drive yourself, that you can work on
etc....they are a precious and useful commodity - vanagons.
They ain't perfect, not at all - but for what you can get, and work on,
and live with, and decent on fuel consumption, plus you can camp or sleep in
one any time, even a non-camper....what's not to like !? ??
Btw...I have a great one FOR SALE .......... ( well , several, but this one
is on the block right now )
White, 86 Syncro Westy, 93 Subaru 2.2 engine conversion by me - scott foss
turbovans -
The cleanest sweetest conversion I've done yet ( for example - the engine
had to come out due to previously done faulty work.....about an hour to take
it out - I specifically make everything very easy to get at, nothing's in
front of something else etc. Standard fasteners everywhere, and so one. I
almost never use allen screws, for example. )
I specifically make them easy to work on. New muffler, new exhaust system,
etc.
Brand new rebuilt trans ! - about 20 miles on it - that's about 4 grand
right there in the trans alone - South African headlights and grill. 15
inch Passat wheels, BGF new krarly big tires, locking rear diff,
High torque starter, new clutch, AC soon to be working ......tent is in
perfect shape .....full westy kitchen.......no body rust, minor dings but
they're touched up......interior very clean.....
CO detector and smoke alarm inside.....aftermarket smaller steering wheel,
but I might put a stocker back on, and more - oh, air horns, and more.
Runs just G R E E A T T !! $ 26,995 in Oregon.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
John Rodgers
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 4:23 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Replacement AFM technology
Another aspect of pricing is consideration of a limited market. Making
up a replacement for the WBX AFM is a dead end street. It won't be good
for terribly long, as more and more vans drop from active use due to
mechanical problems, etc, etc. Soon enough there will be fewer and fewer
vans on the road. Won't be much demand for a replacement AFM in those
days. So price has to be set for the existing market plus the failing
market.
Regards,
John Rodgers
88 GL Driver
tinker man wrote:
> Come on Scott, I was only joking...
> I was actually laughing at *us*, the vanagon addicts, not accusing
> anyone (better be careful with jokes sometimes, less someone might
> mis-interpret...).
> Actually, I think the high cost stems from the high development costs
> they payed to their developer, not just the actual parts. And all you
> said about the free market is obviously quite correct.
> cheers,
> TM
>
> On 9/24/07, Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
>> When you actually know that their 695 unit only costs them say 150 bucks,
>> and it's excessive mark up, fine, then you can call it a 'rip off' .
>> Like is a 150,000 dollar new Mercedes Benz a 'rip off' just because it's
>> expensive ?
>> I make and sell parts sometimes......so I have an idea what goes into
>> pricing something.
>> Usually you have to make it high enough to be worth doing, but not so
high
>> people won't buy it.
>> I doubt gowesty ( though they seem a little expensive in general ) is
>> 'making a killing' or badly overcharging on these.
>> And you know the old law of supply and demand - if they price is too high
>> and the demand low, people don't buy. You get to cast your vote by not
>> buying.
>>
>> Accusing something of being a 'rip off' because it costs more than you
want
>> to pay - common man.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
Of
>> tinker man
>> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 2:23 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Replacement AFM technology
>>
>> Yep, it seems like we Vanagon addicts are ideal rip-off targets...
>> :-)
>>
>> On 9/23/07, Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah and only $700!!
>>>
>>> To eliminate another "shortcoming" of the WBX motor.
>>>
>>> Starting to make a conversion look less expensive still. :)
>>>
>>> On 9/23/07, Paul Guzyk <paullist@guzyk.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What about this solution? has anyone tried it?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=804
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jake
>>> 1984 Vanagon GL
>>> 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
>>> www.crescentbeachguitar.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
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