Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:33:01 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: 1.9 heads on a 2.1 motor?
In-Reply-To: <vanagon%2007092701151996@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
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Air cooled people may do that because that's their affliction/addiction.
A waterboxer engine isn't that good a candidate for turbo power for one
thing....tho it's been done. It's not like they have a really solid head
gasket system.
Bottom ends are robust for sure on wbxr engines.
Gowesty makes 2.3's and even a 2.5 I think.
Still a push rod 8 valve engine.
Still does not have knock sensor ignition I don't think - which is a great
thing to have. .
Still uses a distributor, tho that's not too big a penalty, but no modern
engines do.
Until you get to variable valve timing.....using cam profiles to increase
power can only get you
More power at the high end, at the cost of low end power. Almost all stock
cam grinds
Are the best compromise for decent low end power, and good high end power.
Not until variable valve timing can you get around that.
Modern engines with great low end power and really good top end power have
variable intake valve timing, some have variable exh. Timing, and some have
multiple intake paths, short and long, depending on rpm and load. And of
course 4 valve heads. NOW THAT would be worth looking into - 4 valve heads
for a waterboxer.
THIS I CAN GET exited about. More valve area, equals more cylinder filling
and more power.
Keeping it pushrod would be a shame, but .....that I can really get excited
about ....only one part to make as a fresh casting - the head/s.
There......it's so obvious I would think someone has or is doing that. Four
Valve Heads for a waterboxer. Perfect ! I can't see any downsides other
than the cost of the development and the heads, valves, seats, guides,
springs etc.......
I'd probably use subaru parts, since they're close to waterboxer anyway.
AND ...someone has put subaru 4 valve heads on an air cooled bug drag racing
engine, OHC too. That wouldn't be impossible on a waterboxer either - make
it be OHC with 4 valve heads.
Other than some fundamental re-engineering like 4 valve heads,
At some point, you just 'can't get there' ....as much as you'd like to.
working with an old design. That waterboxer design , to me, dates from
.....really, the overall layout and concept dates from the first bug
engines. Sure fuel injection and liquid cooling were added.....
Displacement increased etc.....but the whole layout .....and concept, is
over 50 years old I dare say.
You just can not make a horse and buggy into a formula one car, no matter
how much you modify it.
Up to a 50 % increase in horse power is possible in a waterboxer, but I
think you'd be weak on durability and longevity. Bu since I thought of 4
valve heads up there......hmmmm.......you got me thinking. Now I'm
wondering if subaru heads can be cut for cylinder barrel holes.
Hmmm....... ! next time I have some soobie heads in hand, and a
waterboxer engine nearby ......
Scott
www.turbovans.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Geza Polony
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:10 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: 1.9 heads on a 2.1 motor?
Ok, now this all's got me thinking...does anyone ever "build" these engines?
Ie., bore them (I think GoWesty does this), increase compression, change cam
characteristics, larger valves, tweaked ECU, turbo,and all the other stuff
that goes into a higher performance engine?
If not, why not? Again, if I'm not mistaken, this happens all the time in
the air-cooled world. It seems like the waterboxer low end, crankshaft,
bearings, etc., is pretty sturdy, so that probably wouldn't be an issue. If
people are spending mega bucks to do conversions, couldn't they put the same
into the waterboxer and end up with twice the power (of the wbx, not the
conversion engine)?
Just musing, late at night.
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