Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 02:30:26 +0200
Reply-To: tinker man <tinkerman007@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: tinker man <tinkerman007@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Replacement AFM technology
In-Reply-To: <46f701ca.1d35640a.1f02.5705SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
As they say, shamless plug :-) (no offence, just joking) but I loved
the way you described the vanagon's versatility and utility.
Yup, we're all vanaddicts...:-)
On 9/24/07, Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
> I disagree. When I started doing turbo diesel conversions in the mid to
> early 90's......
> It was the same thought then - maybe there's not a whole lot of future =
> in
> vanagons.
> What I observe these days however, is near endless vanagon appreciation =
> and
> use and=20
> Development.
> Yes, most definitely it can indeed be very challenging to fine a shop =
> that's
> competent on vanagons if they are not a vanagon specialist.
> The number of vendors, shops, engine conversion shops, people who =
> develop
> aftermarket retrofit stuff - improved cooling system pipes, for
> example.....there's lots of that going on.
>
> Vanagons are unique ............completely unique almost .....good size =
> box,
> not so big you can't push start it or fit into a small nook for stealth
> camping.....fairly good era of technology ....late 80's tech ( engine
> management wise ) is not bad - not so crazy complicated that you can't
> interact with it, like a 96 or later car for example.....pretty easy to =
> work
> on mostly,
> Pretty well made - the engine is the weakest part ....all the rest of a
> vanagon - the suspension, body, the trans, the electrical system - all =
> that
> is pretty decent.=20
> There are LOTS of reasons vanagons are great, and versatile, and
> adaptable....I don't see things slowing down at all.
> About the biggest issue I see is for your ordinary non-auto-technical =
> person
> is finding competent repair. Which is a bitch no matter what kind of =
> car
> you drive frankly - I swear, I might write a book about it sometime -
> really, in the car repair and service industry .....the common standard =
> is
> pretty low - slap parts on it fast, get the money, sell any repair you =
> can
> justify, guess at the parts needed maybe, poor workmanship etc.=20
> MOST of the work I see done on cars sucks............ok, maybe only a =
> solid
> 50 % of it ....can't tell you how many things I find misaligned, not
> engaged, wrong bolts, missing bolts ...on and on and on...
> The vans themselves though - not bad at all.
> Plus possibly the world's largest 'family' of car enthusiasts and =
> modifiers
> etc. =20
>
> Take a syncro westy - this has been recognized for years....you simply =
> can
> not get all that a syncro camper westy offers in that size package, at =
> any
> price, not in the US anyway.
> And, given that even if such a thing did exist....and if it did, new it
> would be over 60,000 dollars at least, and you couldn't work on it !
> That makes a syncro westy look pretty attractive . Around 20K for a =
> good
> used running one....fabulous AWD performance ( though Syncro's do 'like
> money' for sure, and some parts of them are hard to work on until you =
> know
> the tricks and get used them ) .....nice size vehicle, you can work on =
> it
> yourself.....etc.=20
> No, vanagons aren't 'going away.' Parts ....well, the dealers are very =
> lame
> about parts for vanagons, generally speaking .....after market, and
> specialists though ...no shortage of parts at all. Just need to know =
> what
> you're doing.=20
> The next model - Eurovan - they sorta 'lost it' there - they have their
> advantages, like aerodynamics, ABS brakes, air bags etc....but they =
> 'like
> money' too sometimes, a lot. Very low ground clearance - my hunch on =
> that
> is vehicle stability standards btw.....like how easily a vehicle tips =
> over
> .....just my guess that they had to make that car lower, either that...
> And vw and car companies do this all the time- they get a perfect niche
> going, then they blow it by changing what they've been doing so well all
> along. =20
> Then there's Sprinter Vans- I call them the new vanagon.
> 30 to 60 grand, Big huge ole thing. Not All wheel drive etc. .....
> so where does that leave the common VW van enthusiast ? - Vanagons,
> especially 85/86 and later, and Syncro's for those that need/want AWD - =
> in
> good shape actually !
> Show me a viable substitute, that you can work on, that you can modify,
> that's not too big or fuel thirsty ( like sure, there are dodge vans, or
> ford diesel campers on pick-up trucks....they have their =
> place....probably
> very, very reliable and durable.....but fuel thirsty, a bit big and =
> heavy
> etc, and expensive to acquire often. ) ....
> So show me what can beat the combination of what a vanagon offers, =
> that's
> affordable,
> And you can work on yourself, and modify easily, and is not too big or
> expensive.=20
> And there are a LOT of them around - vanagons. I'd say we're smart =
> to
> preserve these fine vehicles....
> So that we CAN have something we can work on ourselves. Big Brother is
> going to take away cars that YOU drive yourself, that you can work on
> etc....they are a precious and useful commodity - vanagons. =20
> They ain't perfect, not at all - but for what you can get, and work =
> on,
> and live with, and decent on fuel consumption, plus you can camp or =
> sleep in
> one any time, even a non-camper....what's not to like !? ??
>
> Btw...I have a great one FOR SALE .......... ( well , several, but this =
> one
> is on the block right now )=20
> White, 86 Syncro Westy, 93 Subaru 2.2 engine conversion by me - scott =
> foss
> turbovans -=20
> The cleanest sweetest conversion I've done yet ( for example - the =
> engine
> had to come out due to previously done faulty work.....about an hour to =
> take
> it out - I specifically make everything very easy to get at, nothing's =
> in
> front of something else etc. Standard fasteners everywhere, and so one. =
> I
> almost never use allen screws, for example. )=20
> I specifically make them easy to work on. New muffler, new exhaust =
> system,
> etc.=20
> Brand new rebuilt trans ! - about 20 miles on it - that's about 4 grand
> right there in the trans alone - South African headlights and grill. 15
> inch Passat wheels, BGF new krarly big tires, locking rear diff,=20
> High torque starter, new clutch, AC soon to be working ......tent is in
> perfect shape .....full westy kitchen.......no body rust, minor dings =
> but
> they're touched up......interior very clean.....
> CO detector and smoke alarm inside.....aftermarket smaller steering =
> wheel,
> but I might put a stocker back on, and more - oh, air horns, and more.
> Runs just G R E E A T T !! $ 26,995 in Oregon.=20
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com=20
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf =
> Of
> John Rodgers
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 4:23 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Replacement AFM technology
>
> Another aspect of pricing is consideration of a limited market. Making
> up a replacement for the WBX AFM is a dead end street. It won't be good
> for terribly long, as more and more vans drop from active use due to
> mechanical problems, etc, etc. Soon enough there will be fewer and fewer
> vans on the road. Won't be much demand for a replacement AFM in those
> days. So price has to be set for the existing market plus the failing
> market.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Rodgers
> 88 GL Driver
>
> tinker man wrote:
> > Come on Scott, I was only joking...
> > I was actually laughing at *us*, the vanagon addicts, not accusing
> > anyone (better be careful with jokes sometimes, less someone might
> > mis-interpret...).
> > Actually, I think the high cost stems from the high development costs
> > they payed to their developer, not just the actual parts. And all you
> > said about the free market is obviously quite correct.
> > cheers,
> > TM
> >
> > On 9/24/07, Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
> >
> >> When you actually know that their 695 unit only costs them say 150 =
> bucks,
> >> and it's excessive mark up, fine, then you can call it a 'rip off' .
> >> Like is a 150,000 dollar new Mercedes Benz a 'rip off' just because =
> it's
> >> expensive ?
> >> I make and sell parts sometimes......so I have an idea what goes into
> >> pricing something.
> >> Usually you have to make it high enough to be worth doing, but not so
> high
> >> people won't buy it.
> >> I doubt gowesty ( though they seem a little expensive in general ) =
> is
> >> 'making a killing' or badly overcharging on these.
> >> And you know the old law of supply and demand - if they price is too =
> high
> >> and the demand low, people don't buy. You get to cast your vote by =
> not
> >> buying.
> >>
> >> Accusing something of being a 'rip off' because it costs more than =
> you
> want
> >> to pay - common man.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On =
> Behalf
> Of
> >> tinker man
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 2:23 PM
> >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> >> Subject: Re: Replacement AFM technology
> >>
> >> Yep, it seems like we Vanagon addicts are ideal rip-off targets...
> >> :-)
> >>
> >> On 9/23/07, Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yeah and only $700!!
> >>>
> >>> To eliminate another "shortcoming" of the WBX motor.
> >>>
> >>> Starting to make a conversion look less expensive still. :)
> >>>
> >>> On 9/23/07, Paul Guzyk <paullist@guzyk.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> What about this solution? has anyone tried it?
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=3D804
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Jake
> >>> 1984 Vanagon GL
> >>> 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
> >>> www.crescentbeachguitar.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
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