Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:42:43 -0700
Reply-To: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Engine removal, long winded...... Seeking advice
In-Reply-To: <46FD4F7B.80000@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi John.
I have removed/installed the tranny on my Vanagon, and have (years
ago) removed/installed engines on VW Beetles.
On 9/28/07, vanagonvw <ac.vanagon@gmail.com> wrote:
> Okay, I have become convinced, and am gonna drop the engine on my air
> cooled to fix up the head problems. This ain't about the problems, its
> about the how2 for dropping the engine.
>
> Done my homework in the archives and the write-ups that are available
> on-line, and posted a lot of questions on a lot of different lists. Ben
> put up some great pix on the process for which I am grateful.
>
> Not really afraid of the job, as much as wanting to learn from those who
> have actually done it to avoid to many 'awshits'
>
> I tend to do what I have decided to call, "virtual work" long before I
> actually get down and dirty. That means, given the time, I do the whole
> job in my head, over and over. Read, look at pix, stand and stare at the
> engine, and even lay underneath and consider what has to be done. This
> can go on for days, until I manage to convince myself I am ready and
> have all the info I need :-)
I too look and study a lot (generally) before getting into something.
I'd say that's the right way!
>
> For those who have actually done this task, particularly on an air
> cooled, can I ask a few questions? If you have done it, and are not
> against being harassed about "how did you do it" I sure would like to
> set up a little give and take here, or in pmail.
>
> How high do I have to get this thing to do it right? Bentley doesn' seem
> to say, Clymer says at least 12" but I think that is too low, based on
> just trying to eyeball it, and the pix I have seen online.
Figure two things. How high can you go? (ceiling height) Then,
dimension of engine WITH floor jack so you can leave it sitting on
floor jack as you roll it out. If you can't get van high enough to do
that, have a piece of hefty carpet ready (under jack) to place engine
on, seperate engine, lower it, and if you're careful, slide if off
jack onto carpet, get jack out of the way, and drag engine out from
under van.
You can also drop engine/tranny as a unit. This can be done with a
floor jack too. "Centering" jack is crucial so balance is correct, but
this may be easier in terms of install.
>
> Where on earth does one find jack stands that go that high? I was going
> to put cinder blocks under the wheels, for stability, and then put some
> stands on either more blocks, or find some wood to pile under them, to
> enable em to reach that high. Would never just leave it on stands, or
> cinder blocks alone. Gotta have backups. Standard ramps would be great,
> but they are not high enough, even tho I don't as yet know how high, is
> high enough.
I would say NO to cinder blocks. Use wood. I have 6x6 chunks of wood I
use as "safety" when using jack stands. I also use 2x4 pieces to help
extend height of jack stands. I also never rely on just stands, or
blocks. I use both.
I read in archives of one lister making ramps out of wood. Sounds
handy to me. Kustom size eh?
>
> The Clymer and Bentley say the trans can be allowed to drop about 3.5"
> when the engine is lowered. There is a write up by Matt Bulley in the
> archives wherein he says "5 to 10" but no more" That's a big difference,
> and these are the kinds of things I want to know before I even start. I
> am sure Matt has done the job before, and knows what works, but when I
> see a conflicting number, I tend to want to ask for more input from others.
>
> In my mind, I have the van up about in the air, and I cannot get through
> the part about lowering the engine to clear the rear deck, as I only
> have 'standard' 2 and three ton hydraulic jacks on wheels. Do I need a
> trans jack, to allow it to get up that high, and come down enough to
> pull it out? Obviously if I have to put the jack on some kind of wood
> block, the engine won't come down low enough. I guess it all ties into
> how high I have to get the beast up in the first place, but you can see
> that sometimes, I overthink things <g>
Although I've only ever dropped a tranny on a Vanagon, and not the
engine, I think that once you have the jack in place under engine, and
are ready to remove the remaining bolts, the engine/tranny as a unit
should be able to move down far enough to allow you to seperate the
engine from tranny.
Can't recall exact measurement, but you need a floor jack that has a
min. of 14" lift. If I understand your email correctly, those small
ones are not appropriate IMHO. You might get away with a smaller floor
jack and wood blocks, but that just sounds too unstable. The saddle of
the jack needs to be big enough to balance engine on, and it has to
have enough lift, (travel) and be rated to handle the weight.
> My biggest concern is in putting it back in, aligning the input shaft,
> and being able to rock it back into place. Hard to picture that process,
> never having done it on a van engine. Do I need a shaft alignment tool
> to reinsert the trans main shaft, if I never touch the clutch assembly?
> I am thinking that if I don't alter the clutch, I won't need it, but I
> am not sure.
No tool needed for input shaft alignment if you haven't touched the
clutch. But from what I recall of engine work on Beetles, the movement
required to align lower studs and input shaft can be tricky. IIRC, one
could turn the engine pulley to align the splines. If you get lucky,
you won't have to do this and they will line up. Especially if you
haven't turned the engine while it's out.
> Any words of wisdom, regarding how high for the van, and how low the
> trans can drop before I screw it up, would be much appreciated.
>
> Patience for all the up and coming dumb questions, would also be
> appreciated :-)
Though there may be more info than you have found in archives, there
are no dumb questions. I have posted many times on this list, and at
times have felt questions may be dumb, but they're not. Epscecially
when it comes to safety.
Cheers,
Neil.
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
--
Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia -
"Jaco" (Bustorius)
http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
Please send fav Vanagon/Westfalia links to me at:
musomuso1963@hotmail.com
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