Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:19:05 -0700
Reply-To: John Goubeaux <john@UCSB.EDU>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: John Goubeaux <john@UCSB.EDU>
Organization: UCSB
Subject: Re: Why I don't drive the Baja at 4 in the morning!
In-Reply-To: <5d903de80710100920v3910cd7bya84ddb388c449207@mail.gmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Folks, I am puzzled by this apparent need to "tip toe" around the fact
that Mexico is in many cases, and in specific regions, a lawless and
un-predictable place. I don't say this in a disparaging or racist way
either. I love the country and admire the people in many ways. I lived
and worked there for many years as a journalist, traveled widely
throughout the country and have seen first hand some eye opening
situations, especially along the border. In some cases this is why North
Americans jump to travel down there, it still has places that feel
"untamed" and there is a certain thrill of adventure in the experience.
Maybe we are just too fixated on the Hollywood cowboy image ?
Raymond is correct that the border regions can often be "extra gritty".
In my view of things they often encompass the worst of both countries,
and yes the fact that there IS immense poverty and often desperate
people moving through these areas compounds the situation. But it is far
more complex as there are also powerful and well armed drug gangs,
smugglers and para military types operating at will in some of these
places. These folks are not necessarily nice guys.
The good news is that they are usually NOT interested in messing with
"gringo" - this includes French Canadians (: tourist driving in
Vanagons. The bad news is that if you do like to drive at odd hours of
the night on roads, especially around the border, you might just meet up
with some rather unsavory characters. If you make it out from one of
these situations unscathed, it usually makes for great travel adventure
stories ( you know the kind you post on forums such as this one), if
you don't, well .....
-john
Karin Baker & Raymond Paquette wrote:
> The problem is that this is a generalization, but one which has truth to it,
> just as do most generalizations. What's not so good is when those
> generalizations are applied inappropriately (like as in Baja is dangerous,
> or Mexico is dangerous ).
>
> The area where these guys were robbed is VERY sketchy indeed. I don't like
> to go there in daylight.
>
> Would we email each other about the danger of travel in the U.S. or even a
> specific state or city after someone was robbed in a dangerous area? I
> think we would not.
>
> The Mexico/U.S. border area around Tijuana is a unique place, one in which
> people with very little money are in regular contact with people with very
> MUCH money. Is it that surprising that people without try to get some of
> what they don't have? That happens everywhere, and the economy of the area
> exacerbates the situation.
>
> But the mythology and fear are far disproportionate to the reality.
>
> One thing that I do is to make a distinction between my self and my stuff.
> My stuff is often at risk, in many places. I watch out for it, and
> sometimes it gets taken anyways. In places like Mexico, I consider that to
> be the price I pay for having stuff that no one else has. My SELF is rarely
> in any danger, wherever I travel.
>
> Raymond
> (lived in San Diego for years, traveled Baja and mainland Mexico, Central
> America for years)
>
> On 10/10/07, Joseph Fortino <fortino1@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I blinked and thought it said don't drive Las Vegas at 4am.. hehe
>> ok ok.. also friday somewhere..
>>
>> paint that van with army paint, cammy ;-)
>>
>> be safe and enjoy,
>> Joe
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>> From: Benny boy <huotb@VIDEOTRON.CA>
>>> Sent: Oct 10, 2007 6:09 AM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: Why I don't drive the Baja at 4 in the morning!
>>>
>>> I understand Bernie the need to be preventive, but it's like saying you
>>> should not go to school because maybe you could be shoot by a crazy
>>>
>> gun-men.
>>
>>> No one want to know about horror storie's, it create fear and fear is the
>>> worse enemy of travelers.
>>>
>>> My EX girlfriend Carolyn just came back from a 5 months trip to Asia, 6
>>> countries, backpacking, ALONE (and she is one nice lady)!!! Everything
>>>
>> went
>>
>>> smooth for the exception of a small aggression in the street of a small
>>> town, she was rob by 1 young guy driving a scooter, he took is purse on
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> "fly"
>>>
>>> I'm sure your point was to "point" "NOT TO TRAVEL" at night, but most
>>>
>> mexico
>>
>>> travelers already know that. I had to travel in Baja at nigh, 3 time, no
>>> choice... i was afraid... of the animals on the road.
>>>
>>> But i agree, border town are somewhat scary, you cross, do your paper
>>>
>> work
>>
>>> and drive 500 miles away from there.
>>>
>>> Yesterday, i was speaking with one of my customer, remember my post about
>>> the lady who was stranded with a bad radiator in Mexico last winter???
>>>
>> Well,
>>
>>> she was telling me all about her 5 years in a row travel into Mexico!
>>> ALONE!! at 62YO. Just marvelous stories.
>>>
>>> In 2003, when i told everyone here i was "going south" (thanks to all
>>>
>> here
>>
>>> for all those nice (over 100) invitation to visit them) many American's
>>>
>> try
>>
>>> to discourage me of going there, why?
>>>
>>> Me, i only regret one thing about my "Ultimate Vanagon", it's Tornado
>>>
>> Red!
>>
>>> not the best color to travel incognito.
>>>
>>> Fear is the engine of community...
>>>
>>> Cheers, Ben
>>> http://www.benplace.com/baja_intro.htm
>>>
>>> On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:40:07 -0700, Bernie <berniej@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> hope your not telling us (or should i say "me") that it's safer in the
>>>> US??? come on men!!! The USA, where their is more murder per capita then
>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>> rest of the world!
>>>>
>>>> Not comparing the countries.
>>>> I'm simply stating why I have no interest in driving in the Baja in the
>>>> wee hours of the morning.
>>>> I have been to the Baja on 7 or 8 occasions and love it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Many people have travel in Mexico for years, they have not much to say
>>>>
>> about
>>
>>>>> bandidos!:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We travelled down the Baja 25 years ago and then took a ferry from Cabo
>>>> to mainland Mexico. From there we went north to Durango and the next
>>>> day drove the road from Durango to Mazatlan. When we got to Mazatlan
>>>> the owner of the campground asked us from where we had come.
>>>> I told him and he said that there was a "travel advisory" on that road.
>>>> You should not have been on it.
>>>> The bad guys had dressed up as Federals and stopped tourists.
>>>> There had been shootings and some killings.
>>>> All this a day or two before we travelled that road. It could have
>>>>
>> easily
>>
>>>> been us.
>>>> That's a fact and not a story.
>>>> I know.........I know this is not the norm.
>>>> But to say it can't happen would not be accurate.
>>>>
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