Date:         Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:25:03 -0700
Reply-To:     Michael Elliott <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Michael Elliott <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 1.9L Gutless when first started
In-Reply-To:  <20071021152431.A8688109638D@mail.davidellis.biz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Thanks, Jonce. Symptoms unchanged when Temp 2 sensor replaced with new,
and I can't find any intake leak. Been over the intake leak thing a few
weeks ago on this list.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
KG6RCR



On 10/21/2007 8:24 AM Jonce Fancher wrote:

> I would check the Temp 2 sensor before even starting it up the 1st time
> of the day to see if it for some reason still thinks the engine is warm.
> Sorry not to be much help. Issues Ive had is where it runs like crap
> after it warms up. But gutless at start up ive had problems with intake
> leak. C-ya Jonce
>
>  >I need some ideas where to look. (1.9L, auto transmission)
>  >
>  >Symptom: when engine is first started it doesn't have any power and won't
>  >rev easily. By "first started" I mean this will happen the first time the
>  >van has been started that day, or even if it has been driven until warmed
>  >up, left to sit in a parking lot for 15 minutes, then started again.
>  >
>  >Pressure on the gas pedal when in Park or Neutral will cause the engine to
>  >rev, sort of, but it's not very enthusiastic about it, "pulses" VROommmm m
>  >m m mmVROOmmm m m m. Ken Lewis O2 monitor sits pretty steady in center of
>  >range during this brief time (new O2 sensor, too, O2 fluctuates properly
>  >when ECU closes loop). Pressing on pedal will cause rpms to go up, but
>  >grudgingly. There might be a soft cough or two (backfires?).
>  >
>  >After 30 seconds or so, the engine "wakes up" and revs properly.
>  >
>  >If I don't wait until it has woken up before driving the engine simply
>  >will not rev at all when in gear. Feathering, pressing, wiggling gas pedal
>  >do nothing. Van may creep at 1mph for a few seconds, cough, then it will
>  >wake up. It generally runs a little "rough" for the first few seconds
>  >after waking up but it has power.
>  >
>  >The "waking up" of the engine is not coincident with the ECU going
>  >closed-loop by the way. It will wake up well before the bouncing ball on
>  >the O2 monitor indicates closed-loop operation, which occurs about a
>  >minute or two after the engine has been running. Before going closed loop
>  >the monitor drifts kind of lazily around the middle range. This appears to
>  >be normal.
>  >
>  >After the engine has awoken and smoothed out, there is no problem
>  >whatsoever for the remainder of the trip. O2 sensor bounces in a lively
>  >fashion. It has "fixed itself," until it gets turned off for a few
> minutes.
>  >
>  >I envision it this way: I step on pedal, throttle moves off idle switch
>  >(tested) and AFM should tell ECU that fuel is wanted. Near as I can tell,
>  >no fuel is being delivered. Or timing isn't advancing, though it was
>  >tested (centrifugal and vacuum) a couple weeks ago after this behavior
>  >first surfaced. O2 sensor sits in middle of range, neither rich nor lean.
>  >Should rich up, yes?
>  >
>  >Things I have checked (O2, idle, timing advances and retard) are already
>  >listed on my "poor mileage" page at
>  >_http://camping.elliott.googlepages.com/poormileage_ so I won't list
> them here.
>  >
>  >Fuel pump? Funky AFM? What am I missing? Brains for driving such a cranky
>  >old vehicle (75,000 original miles, California wear and tear, meaning
>  >looks pretty like new in engine compartment).
>  >
>  >--
>  >Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>  >71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
>  >84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
>  >74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
>  >KG6RCR
>
> Jonce Fancher
>
> 56 Single Cab
> 66 Sunroof Bug
> 66 Variant Squareback
> 66 Porsche 912
> 71 Sunroof Bus
> 84 Vanagon "Gottfried"
> 85 Vanagon Westi
> 2003 10 Passenger Sprinter
>
> Fancher's Upholstery Inc. -  www.fanchers.com
> Not-A-VW Club- http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jaransont3/notavwclub/