Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:26:40 -0400
Reply-To: Karin Baker & Raymond Paquette <raymondpaquette@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Karin Baker & Raymond Paquette <raymondpaquette@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Definitive test for Hall > ECU?
In-Reply-To: <bfb5ccc40710300923w8f8873fi5919052adc484500@mail.gmail.com>
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Is there any reason not to rev it up and set the timing at maximum advance?
It's not the timing at idle that really matters, I think, so it can just
land wherever your worn out springs land it.
Of course, I don' t know what the timing should be at max advance.
Then again, don't CA smog check the actual timing, not just emissions?
Anyone?
Raymond
On 10/30/07, Old Volks Home <oldvolkshome@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> For the past 10 years I have always run my timing on my 84 Automatic Westy
> at 0 (TDC) - runs smoother, best powerband transition and have no problem
> passing California smog at this setting.
>
> Why not 5 degrees ATDC? The 1.9 Distributor with the high mileage (180K
> on
> mine) on them tends to be a bit "worn" with tired advance springs/weights
> in
> the mechanical action and placing the timing at 0 in most instances
> (sometimes even up to 5 BTDC) compensates for the wear. Remember - the
> specs shown in Bentley and on my website are for brand new and low mileage
> distributors with fairly low to medium mileage engines for optimum
> performance.
>
> I'm not sure if I would go as far as 10 degrees BTDC - yer living pretty
> darn close to the edge of pinging/detonation, these things run lean enough
> as it is. My rule of thumb is that if you have you time it that high,
> it's
> time to replace or rebuild the distributor with new springs, weights, etc.
>
> 10 half turns (actually is 5 full turns) from the bottoming out of the
> Throttle Bypass Screw is a bit high. Generally 3 full turns is the norm
> (it
> is on mine) and when I upgraded to Boston Bob's Euro-Digijet 2.1 ECU
> earlier
> this year I had to re-set clockwise about 3 half turns ( 1 1/2 full
> turns) in to bring the idle down (it went up). Checked the timing, but
> that
> didn't need resetting. Haven't had to mess with it since.
> --
> Jim Thompson
> 84 GL 1.9 "Gloria"
> 84 Westfalia 2.1 "Ole Putt"
> 73 K Ghia Coupe "Denise"
> 72 411 Station Wagon "Pug"
> oldvolkshome@gmail.com
> http://www.oldvolkshome.com
> ***********************************
> On 10/30/07, Michael Elliott <camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, Ken. You're not the first to suggest that while 5* ATDC can make
> > passing emissions easier -- and in California that's always a
> > consideration -- better performance is available closer to, or past,
> TDC.
> > I do a lot of mountain driving and don't want to ping the engine to
> death
> > so I might not enter deeply into BTDC territory.
> >
> > I am curious to see how getting closer to TDC affects the throttle
> bypass
> > screw adjustment. If 10 half-turns CCW from fully in is, as everyone
> says,
> > an unusually large amount to be needed in order to get the engine to
> idle
> > with the idle stabilizer bypassed, then something is fishy.
> >
> > But as Jim Thompson offered yesterday, I tend to get obsessive about
> these
> > things, about poking too deeply into the corners where my ignorance is
> > darkest and chasing my tail. That's two metaphors, mixed, I think.
> >
> > W/r/t the other things you suggested I might consider, my cylinders test
> > at 155, 155, 155, 135 and the manifold tests at 11'' Hg, which appears
> to
> > be the standard idle vacuum per Bentley's (inferred, see my top-rated
> blog
> > at http://camping.elliott.googlepages.com/poormileage). Others have
> posted
> > more inches of vacuum as being standard but I'm satisfied that 11'' is
> > pretty good. But thanks for mentioning them.
> >
> > --
> > Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
> > 71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
> > 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
> > 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
> > KG6RCR
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/30/2007 4:21 AM Ken Wilford wrote:
> >
> > > Mike, I usually set mine for 5-10 degrees BTDC. The 2.1l Vanagons
> were
> > > spec at 7 deg BTDC (if memory serves). The retarded timing setting
> for
> > > the 1.9l Vanagon is (I believe) a compromise for emissions testing.
> > > However I have set mine at 10 BTDC with much better driveability,
> power,
> > > etc. Never had any problems with pinging, or even getting through
> > > emissions tests (strict here in NJ).
> > > If you do this your idle should come up to where it should be without
> > > turning the screw to oblivion.
> > > Also you might want to check your valve adjustment. If the valves
> > > adjustment is too tight this can cause low manifold pressure (vacuum)
> > > and idling problems. A compression test would help in this area.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps,
> > > Ken Wilford
> > > John 3:16
> > > www.vanagain.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Michael Elliott wrote:
> > >> Hm. I already did all that. Had a friend check my timing, too.
> > >>
> > >> Bentley's says 5 degrees ATDC for the 1.9l (p. 24.18). Is there a
> > >> reason I
> > >> should be doing 10 degrees?
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
> > >> 71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
> > >> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
> > >> 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
> > >> KG6RCR
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 10/29/2007 9:30 PM Geza Polony wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> 10 full turns is way way way off the mark. This is an indication of
> a
> > >>> problem. The first thing I'd check is the ignition timing. Free,
> too.
> > >>>
> > >>> Start by setting the timing, with the idle stabilizer bypassed, to
> > >>> 10* ATDC,
> > >>> hoses attached, 950 rpm. You should be able to get it to run fine
> > >>> with the
> > >>> idle stabilizer out. Then reattach.
>
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