Date:         Wed, 7 Nov 2007 10:41:50 -0500
Reply-To:     Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Subject:      Re: That recent post bashing Tiico..one on Yahoo subaru too.
In-Reply-To:  <vanagon%2007110701070633@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 11/7/07, Benny boy <huotb@videotron.ca> wrote:
>Naaa. Just to save money, they can not justify 10K on a 5-10K van
> so they try themself, and they fail! So that list will be there for a long
> time. This can be done perfectly the right way the first time, but hey! we
> won't give you all the inside!

I disagree with you Ben. They aren't all failures.  Some guys pull it
off, some don't. I think the main difference is the information. If
building a DIY conversion, you need to have access to, and understand
all of the right information. You know this better than anyone because
that's Vanaru's core value proposition, you have the information to do
it correctly. That's what the list is about, trying to cull that
information from the experiences of others. Imagine how bad things
would be for folks without the lists.. conversely imagine how well it
would go if Vanaru launched a documentation effort so that anyone
could do it just like you(would be shooting yourself in the foot in a
way, but it would lead to a lot more successful DIYers) anyhow in
evolving from developing and installing turnkeys, to now trying to
create our own DIY movement based on that idea(providing all the
information we've learned over the last three years about doing our
conversion), it has become blatantly obvious that the key to all of it
is proper information transmission(if of course you've got a simple
and robust enough starting point with regard to the actual conversion
design)... and this means not just getting it to the DIYers hands, it
needs to be in their heads, and further it has to be understood. This
is no small chore.. but I believe it's the best way to go in the long
run. It is more efficient for the small scales we're talking about in
the vanagon aftermarket. Lot's of people want answers for their needs
and wants with regards to conversions, yet the price is still too much
of a barrier simply because nobody has been able to get the economies
of scale built into the conversions.  I think that the ideal situation
is where they not only have a conversion for a much lower price point
than these days, but also have the confidence and ability to build,
install, and maintain it themselves if they want to, as well as the
option of having someone else take care of it.  Keeping the system as
simple as possible is part of it, producing the parts in enough volume
for good pricing with good quality is part of it, and providing the
information one knows intimately to the end user is another part of
it. Having a pro install a conversion doesn't achieve this, it's
locates and unveils the tip of the iceberg, but you've got the rest of
the ownership period of time to consider as well.  Give them a fish
they eat for a day vs. teach them to fish type of thing.  Ben you have
taught lot's of guys how to fish with loads of information on the list
before your conversion(which as Karl points out hasn't just been the
engine in your van) but extolling the virtue's of professional
installation as the key to a happy future is somewhat missing the
bigger picture I think, unless professional maintenance or a long
warranty is also a given condition.  Anyhow, like you said nothing, no
engine conversion is ever perfect, nobody in the world has ever made a
car without problems, or modified one to have none. But in managing
the risk(which is all we can do) I think successful DIYers are armed
with one thing that really has enormous power, knowledge and
confidence... saying they all fail and should just spring for a
turnkey obliterates this condition. Perhaps better in the short term
for some, but I still think it can be better. And if you still believe
that all of the DIYers are doing it to save money, I can assure you
that notion is false... I thought the same thing, until I started
being reminded by our test group DIYers that it can be at the same
time fun, rewarding, and successful with the right help behind you...
which is something that I need to make sure not to forget. Especially
since this is afterall vanagonland, where the levels of esteem for
self sufficiency are high, perhaps higher than with just about any
other group I can think of.

Jim Akiba