Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 11:23:54 -0500
Reply-To: ***************** <vw4x4@VERIZON.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: ***************** <vw4x4@VERIZON.NET>
Subject: Re: Have you ever broken a clutch by push starting a vehicle?
In-Reply-To: <000101c82f3c$e6d8f2e0$6701a8c0@TOSHIBALAP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Sorry to have to disagree, but i've done it. Not only can it be done, but
this is a common problem in 4 wheel drive vehicles, so the manufacture
will beef up the clutch disc, just to prevent this problem. This is why
the Syncro
clutch disc is a different part number than the 2 wheel drive vanagon.
The engine speed had nothing to do with it,. if you have the clutch
disengaged.
(holding the pedal down) Having the wheels drive the transmission with
creeper
gears engaged, send the clutch disc spinning at speed well beyond what
the disc
will handle, and will scatter the disc. I proved that in 1996.........
The problem come in play when something like the following story
happens:::
Note the date of 1996 with my new to me City Syncro:::::::
You guys are going to love this one!
I started down a steep, paved hill, in creeper gear. As the gears
started to wind up I thru in the clutch to shift from creeper
gear to second or third. Fiddling with things on the passenger seat
I did not have a chance to get it out of gear, before I was slammed
against the dash as one of the rear wheels
must of locked! Left 25 feet of rubber on the road!
(Maybe If I had a chance to get my seat belt on
I would have known more of what had happen). When The Van was
almost at a stop, I got off the dash and back in to the driver
seat and pulled it out of low, drifted to the bottom of the hill.
At that time I realized the clutch was not disengaging.
Couldn't get it into any gear. Obviously there was a major failure
in the clutch! It took fancy driving with no clutch to get it home.
A week or so later I removed the transaxle to fine certificate force
had scattered the clutch disc. A trip the the parts store confirmed
this, when they had a special disc for the syncro model. I then
realized that the DPO had installed a 2 wheel drive clutch.
Scott Daniel - Shazam wrote:
>The engine would blow up before the clutch disc would blow up from
>centrifugal force.
>I guestimate that a syncro clutch disc can do 10,000 rpm easily with out
>failure from just rotational speed.
> You *can* ask the engine and clutch to over rev by engaging too low a gear
>at too high a speed.
>Try putting your trans in second sometime coasting down a hill at 60 mph,
>it'll go in - the syncro's will allow it, but if you let out the clutch, and
>the tires have traction, you'll be trying to make the engine and clutch disc
>turn the equivalent of 60 in 2nd gear, which is about 9,000 rpm or
>something, way over redline. ( ask me how I know this ! )
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
>****************************
>Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:05 AM
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: Have you ever broken a clutch by push starting a vehicle?
>
>Is this a syncro? If so you blew up the clutch
>disc from cerntrifical force... Ask me how I know this...
>
>
>
>
>From: Clint Kolda <clint_kolda@YAHOO.COM>
>Date: 2007/11/24 Sat PM 08:36:17 CST
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Have you ever broken a clutch by push starting a vehicle?
>
>Our Thanksgiving campout started great. Thursday's traditional meal cooked
>in dutch ovens turned out perfect. The weather was cool but sunny. We had
>the entire campground to ourselves. It was awesome.
>
> Friday morning it was about 15 degrees F. It's time like these when you
>find out the status of your 5 year old battery. You guessed it. The van
>would not start. I placed some charcoal in aluminum foil under the engine
>to try to warm it up a bit. Then we decided to push start it. Like a dummy
>I had parked on a slight hill so we had to go up before anything was going
>to happen. We unloaded as much as we could and my wife and I pushed while
>my 10 year old son maneuvered the steering wheel. He really enjoyed his
>first time driving. We pushed a few hundred yards across flat land until we
>reached a big downhill section. I got in, popped the clutch and we were off
>and running.
>
> The van made it the 20 miles home, but it would not go into gear. I
>matched the revs and we were able to get by OK. First gear is impossible,
>2-3-4 are tough to engage unless the revs are exact. With the clutch
>depressed, it sounds like marbles are rolling around in a can. With the
>engine off I can get it in any gear. I definitely broke something. I guess
>I'll probably park it until spring and put in a clutch kit. Are there any
>other things to replace at the same time that I should ask of Santa?
>
> My sons have a good moral to the story. They really thought it was a fun
>adventure but they suggest that next time we park downhill.
>
> Clint
>
>
>
>
| 
