Date:         Sun, 25 Nov 2007 23:30:08 -0500
Reply-To:     Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Have you ever broken a clutch by push starting a vehicle?
Comments: To: psdooley@VERIZON.NET
In-Reply-To:  <0JS3006V6CL2TY4K@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Actually, On a Syncro in low or reverse it does not take too much. Consider
that those gears are ~6 to 1 ration plus the almost 5 to 1 on the
ring-pinon. Going down a hill you can get that tranny going fairly fast. The
real damage though comes from letting the clutch engage. This can tear up
the clutch, or most likely break the low gear carrier housing. The best gear
for push starting is usually 3rd or 2nd.

Dennis


>From: pdooley <psdooley@VERIZON.NET>
>Reply-To: pdooley <psdooley@VERIZON.NET>
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: Have you ever broken a clutch by push starting a vehicle?
>Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 21:07:58 -0500
>
>Oh yeah, that's right.
>The clutch disc is splined to the tranny input shaft, and therefore the
>wheels when in gear.
>
>You would however have to push mighty fast to over speed the clutch disc
>though.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
>Karin Baker & Raymond Paquette
>Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 7:13 PM
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: Have you ever broken a clutch by push starting a vehicle?
>
>No, he's talking about when the pedal is depressed, and the clutch disc is
>not clamped.
>
>In any case, centrifugal force is a misnomer.  It's actually inertia-or the
>urge for things to keep going in the direction they are already going.
>Each
>bit on a clutch disc wants to keep going in a straight line from wherever
>it
>is-which seems like a force pushing outward.
>
>I can see how going, say, 25mph in granny gear could overspeed a clutch
>disk, and cause the friction material to fly off.
>Although the result is excessive slippage and chattering, not inability to
>disengage (ask ME how I know).  I guess you might get chunks of friction
>material caught between disc and flywheel or disc an pressure plate.  I
>didn't.  My disc was already weakend by being saturated with oil.
>
>Raymond
>
>On 11/25/07, pdooley <psdooley@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > Correct, not from centrifugal force.
> >
> > Think about it- the clutch disk is "clamped" in place by the pressure
> > plate.
> > This greatly reduces the effect of centrifugal force.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>Of
> > Mike S
> > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:03 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: Have you ever broken a clutch by push starting a vehicle?
> >
> > At 11:23 AM 11/25/2007, ***************** wrote...
> > >Sorry to have to disagree,  but i've done it....
> > >>If so you blew up the clutch
> > >>disc from cerntrifical force... Ask me how I know this...
> >
> > There's the disconnect. The damage you described was caused by too much
> > torque (rotational force) on the clutch friction plate. It was not from
> > centrifugal or centripetal force.
> >