Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:08:10 -0800
Reply-To: Michael Elliott <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Michael Elliott <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Calculate fuel consumption when idling?
In-Reply-To: <001601c8308c$eb8a4040$fe73fea9@DADSTOSHIBA>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Thanks, Dennis.
My main reason for getting that charge controller is to better charge
my deep cycle while driving. The alternator never got it above 85% or
so, and that bugged me. I found myself deploying the solar panels when I
reached a camping area, to top the battery off. Whether getting the
battery topped off is necessary or not is really dependent on conditions
and individual preferences. Like whether one wants to start a trip with
a full tank of gas, or 7/8ths of a tank. Sure, there are gas stations
along the way, but not having that extra eighth of a tank could make the
difference between reaching the next station or not. It's true that a
battery is a (responsibly) disposable item, but a 130Ah Trojan is not
exactly in the same league as a box of Kleenex.
I reckon I could easily bypass the charge controller -- maybe with a
solenoid -- for more rapid bulk charging if I find it necessary. I'm
still sorting out my extended-duration wiring scheme here. One good
thing about knowing how to connect bits together with wire is that I can
achieve a setup that suits my needs. And usually without big sparks!
On the flipside, I am quite ignorant about the effects of idling an
engine for very long. But I consider the charge while idle approach to
be a last-ditch effort in case of trouble. I don't own a generator --
can't stand the things. I'm a solar kinda guy.
An anti-idle law? I haven't heard of one.
--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
KG6RCR
On 11/26/2007 4:31 PM Dennis Haynes wrote:
> Scott,
> Thank you for saving me some typing here with your response. It is tough
> to get any lower efficiency to charging a battery than using the main
> engine. The so called charging controller with its 16 amp output will also
> be in the way during the bulk charge cycle. To get full out put out of the
> alternator, the RPM will need to rise to 1,600 rpm. Then you also have the
> destructive process.
>
> Let's start wit the transmission. All of those clutches just slipping away
> and going nowhere. Lots of heat from the oil pump and the valve body being
> under constant pressure testing that relief valve. Oh yes, this is good.
> FWIW manually trannies do not like extended idling neither.
>
> No for the engine. The 1.9 cooling system suffers at idle. Not much flow
> and then comes the cycling of the fan. Oops! There go some 20 amps or so.
> The front cylinders do not get good coolant flow. Coolant flows only at
> the rear. Probably the main reason for the 2.1 cooling system redesign.
> Coolant goes into the engine at the rear and flows out the front. Yes,
> flow through.
>
> And for fuel consumption, imagine the cold start and then extended warm up
> due to the engine not being loaded. Probably will be close to 3/4 gallon
> for the first 1/2 hour.
>
> From experience, a warm engine will use ~3/4 gallon/hour for idle, low
> speed. This from building engines and running them on the floor. Yes back
> in the carb days.
>
> A 5,500 watt generator will also use ~ a gallon/hour.
>
> Anyway, Mike, you are putting way to much emphasis on getting the battery
> to 100% charge and not going below 50%. You do need to consider the
> battery as a consumable and a cycle from 80% to 100% is still a cycle that
> imparts some wear and does not need to be done daily.
>
> Didn't you already get the Honda generator? Why not use it? Also, is CA
> also instituting anti idling laws? My 2004 motor home that I bought in CA
> will turn the engine off once the coolant is over 120F and the vehicle
> does not actually roll, or see a throttle or brake pedal change in 5
> minutes. Yes, it needs to see change. It did once shut down on me in a
> traffic jam.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Scott Daniel - Shazam
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 3:02 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Calculate fuel consumption when idling?
>
> Well, finally the whole story comes out.
> Shame to run a whole giant car engine just to charge a battery, especially
> for up to two hours. I hope that's not in a campground with neighboring
> campers, even if it is a quietly running stock waterboxer.
> And *now* that we know what's really going on, perhaps you need to
> consider rpm while charging. Does it charge significantly better at
> 1,500
> rpm than at 800 rpm idle ? Is it more efficient to charge at a higher rpm
> for a shorter period ? etc.
> How about this - you make your 'standard run' include exactly the same
> period of idle charging each trip ? then you're fuel mileage
> calculations
> will include 'trip there and back plus X hours idling."
> Methinks a very quiet small Honda generator is really the right device
> and
> method for your purposes. Though it is another device to lug along, take
> up
> space and weight, and they're not cheap, so it's understandable you'd want
> to not have one of those if you could help it.
> I got it ! .....stationary bicycle driving a generator ! Then you pedal
> each day 45 minutes - no pollution, no noise, no burning fossil fuel
> inefficiently, plus you get exercise. And how many calories per hour does
> a
> vanagonite burn charging a battery at 5 amps per hour burn ????
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Michael Elliott
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 7:04 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Calculate fuel consumption when idling?
>
> Hi Phil,
>
> I want to find out what difference having the wheels on my van aligned
> makes to my van's mileage. I have a "standard" round trip I make, to a
> nearby mountain camping area. The last time I made that trip I got 16.2
> mpg. I will be making that trip again in a couple days.
>
> This time, though, I will not be using solar power to keep my aux battery
> full. I have a battery charger that runs off the alternator and I reckon I
> might need to run the engine a couple hours a day to top off the battery.
>
> If I don't have a clue about how much fuel the engine consumes when idling
> then I can't factor that in when calculating my mileage after I return in
> order to see what diff the alignment made. So that's why I asked if anyone
> knew fuel consumption when idling. It wasn't, ah, an /idle/ question.
>
> --
> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
> 71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
> 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
> KG6RCR
>
>
>
> On 11/26/2007 6:04 AM phil cain wrote:
>
>> Here we are trying to figure out what the idle
>> consumption is, when the best we can do on the miles
>> per gallon/ or idle consumption, is get a close
>> estimate, do we have a screw loose somewhere. We are
>> not flying a aircraft where the fuel is figured real
>> close, we can always pull over to the side of the road
>> and walk to the gas station. I have a average of 19-21
>> MPG on a 80 Westy that's good enough for me. Phil
>>
>>
>>
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