Date:         Tue, 4 Dec 2007 18:06:57 -0800
Reply-To:     Mark Drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Mark Drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Buying Vans on e-Bay
In-Reply-To:  <011801c836dd$50bec110$f23c4330$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Well put. I have bought way more than 100 Vanagon related items on Ebay
and about 95% of the time it turns out fine. 4% of the time I am less
than completely satisfied. About 1% of the time I am screwed. I have won
vehicles a few times but they have NEVER turned out to be as described
and none of the deals were completed. I would never buy a vehicle sight
unseen unless I had the option to refuse it when I came to get it,
whether auction or private sale.

It is silly to think that Ebay could somehow reimburse people for
outright frauds perpetrated through use of their auctions or spoofs of
their auctions. If they were to do so, this would greatly increase the
volume of such fraud. It is the danger and fear of such frauds that the
system relies on to inspire caution and good judgment. If you could
gamble on questionable deals safe in the knowledge that Ebay would pay
you back then lots more people would go for questionable deals. Crooks
would even set up shady deals just so they could conspire with an
associate to act as a fleeced  buyer and take Ebay to the cleaners.

Mark



Leslie Schwartz wrote:
> I think there are two parts to this and the questions seem to be;
>
> 1) if you get spoofed, can you rely on Ebay to bail you out, and
> 2) can you trust Ebay because it attracts the schemers
>
> So, for myself the spoof emails are pretty unconvincing, and I get bogus emails along the same lines for Washington Mutual, Bank of
> America, Credit Unions I do not belong to etc.
>
> I am not sure what BofA would do if I was deceived and lost money some how in a spoofed email using their logo and graphics. The
> police and the FBI would be interested though.
>
> But I do know that if I get scammed on Ebay its not Ebay's doing, and they probably can't make their site totally idiot proof just
> for me.
>
> Now if (when) someone actually used an Ebay auction to intentionally scam people I am very confident that the local police and the
> fbi would take action on any claim of substance (i.e. grand larceny > $250) or multiple instances of fraud.
>
> But as someone already said, you just may be out of that "investment" and never see it returned.
>
> On the other hand for normal transactions which in my view are the ones you really have to watch out for since in contrast the scams
> are obvious, Ebay uses a feedback system, and it's a pretty good indication of what the seller / buyer is like to deal with.
>
> What I mean is the Vanagon that has a lot more rust that was indicated in the auction, etc. So I am very wary of average just
> slightly dis-honest people and I consider that a greater risk to me personally that straight out scams.
>
> So my conclusion is somebody sending in $20k to a spoofed escrow site is not all that perceptive and again I am not sure Ebay could
> do anything to help him.
>
>
>