Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:06:14 -0800
Reply-To: Leslie H Schwartz <lhs_emf@PACBELL.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Leslie H Schwartz <lhs_emf@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Buying Vans on e-Bay
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I've had more than 500 transactions on Ebay. I have gotten burned about four times total. Simply because some people lie and its not possible to check every item out 100% prior to purchase. And, I think in the cases where I got burned I was too eager to have the item and ignored some of the warning signs.
Any big ticket item like this should be purchased via an escrow service. Or has been suggested by an in-person inspection by the buyer. Most auctions go on for several days and if you are really interested
in the item and its an expensive item, you should do some (the necessary) research
about the individual and the item.
And if you are not getting a good response or feeling about a certain Ebayer, look him up. I have even looked up people with on-line investigative services for items that were in the multi-thousand dollar range. And you can do some tracing via free on line information sources. Compare that information to the Ebay information about the individual and you can spot most of the people who are obviously frauds.
Some one who is a bit of a liar is harder to detect other than their feedback record and that will also eventually catch up with them.
I personally believe that most honest people will communicate and respond in a genuine way to interested (possible) bidders. Invariably dishonest people are evasive and have poor communications. Maybe there are loquacious liars on Ebay, I haven't run into them. Admittedly a good liar will always know what the other person wants to hear. So always maintaining a bit of a skeptical attitude is a good thing to do.
Obviously, some methods of transferring funds, like Western Union to a foreign seller are a real bad idea. Even Western Union will discourage you or will prohibit some of these transfers.
But pay pal and your credit card do provide some means / measure of safety and back out or refund.
You can file a local police report against an individual and you can file an fbi on-line fraudulent transaction report against someone, and these eventually do produce some results. I have done this and with some sellers that others have as well and this produces results.
I will also communicate with other participants, say other buyers like myself of a seller who is acting questionably, so if a seller hides his feedback and makes the auction "private" so you can't see who else is involved as a buyer, then those are warning signs like a bad Ebay feedback rating or no rating.
Ebay itself will only ban someone who you can establish is a fraud outside of the community safety procedures they have, but they are not going to do the investigative work for that unless you can clearly establish that fraud is likely.
But if you can establish that someone has constructed a fraudulent Ebay ID, or who has not acted in good faith outside of the subjective, and there is a huge gray area for that about an item, then they will take some action, but they do tend to take the seller's side, so as always its buyer beware.
I have gotten a few people banned from Ebay and saved my payment, or just never bid in the first place in those instances because I did some research and I was honest with myself about what was likely to happen.
----- Original Message ----
From: Greg Potts <greg@POTTSFAMILY.CA>
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2007 8:43:30 AM
Subject: Re: Buying Vans on e-Bay
Hi Aristotle,
I heard the same newscast this morning. The guy, wasn't a complete
newbie, he had made big-ticket eBay purchases before. And we're
talking about a real $20K, not $6. Here's the story, direct from the
CBC:
http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2007/12/03/ebay-hijack.html
I can also agree with David about poor support from Paypal. I got
burned for $60 in "transaction fees" 3 years ago when trying to
transfer $$$ out of paypal into my bank account. Apparently there was
a glitch, and I got hit with a $30 fee. And they hit me twice,
because some of the funds I was transferring out were coming from a US
$ account, and the remainder from my $CDN account. It was impossible
to get a paper trail on this from paypal, and my bank could not
verify a declined transaction; so I had to swallow it. They have
since changed their verification practices on bank transfers, and the
problem has not recurred.
But with $20,000 involved, I am very unhappy that eBay won't talk to
the RCMP. That has me quite concerned.
Happy Trails,
Greg Potts
1973/74/77/79 Westfakia "Bob The Tomato
www.pottsfamily.ca
www.busesofthecorn.com
On 3-Dec-07, at 11:48 AM, Aristotle Sagan wrote:
> There's an old saying. It's hard to cheat an honest man. Putting
> 20 grand
> somewhere where you don't know EXACTLY where it's going to go?
>
> Someone was in for the one time big deal and got burned.
>
> Sorry it happened but you (the Queen's you) always need to cover
> your butt.
> Now maybe at the time 20K Canadian was only worth $6.00 US but still.
>
> tim in san jose
>
> On Dec 3, 2007 6:31 AM, David Etter <detter@mail.auracom.com> wrote:
>
>> I sat up in bed this morning in horror and turned the radio up..
>> The CBC (Cdn. Broadcasting Corp) aired an article about this
>> poor man who bought a car through e-Bay but ended up with no car and
>> was out $20,000.xx, AND he got less than no support from e-Bay
>> concerning his loss. He reported it to the RCMP who then contacted
>> e-Bay. The RCMP representative said that e-Bay refused to talk to
>> them and refused to acknowledge that "Criminal elements had figured
>> out a way to highjack e-Bay web-sites". He also said.."I guess they
>> don't want the public to know this is possible so they won't talk
>> about it."
>> The man in question said that he trys to contact e-Bay then
>> as soon as he gives them his I.D. name or password, he is
>> disconnected.. everytime..
>> Now, I'm sure that 'criminals' are not going to highjack the
>> site that sells a 1982 diesel radiator, but it does reinforce my own
>> experience of getting no support from e-Bay or Pay-Pal for a deal
>> gone bad even if it was a small transaction. Caveat Emptor !
>> I just thank my lucky stars that this VW forum and others
>> like it have enough savvy members who are aware of what's out there
>> for sale and whether or not it's a scam.
>> Several times I've read where members of our forum have
>> identified and warned others of a possible scam. I just feel sorry
>> for the poor fellow who lost $20,000.xx trying to buy a car on
e-Bay.
>> I think every member of the various VW forums should be grateful for
>> the close support we get from one another. THANK YOU ALL !
>>
>> David (dsl82westy)
>>
>> P.S.:
>> Does anyone know how it is possible for "The Criminal
>> Element" to do such a thing. I thought that with a vehicle purchase
>> on e-Bay a buyer had the "Right" to retract a bid once he found out
>> that the vehicle wasn't as advertised.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Where ever you are, there you be. Unless you're driving my van, in
> which
> case, you ain't got there yet.
