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Date:         Sat, 1 Dec 2007 11:10:30 -0800
Reply-To:     Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: New thermostat funky?
Comments: To: Michael Elliott <camping.elliott@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:  <4751AA48.7080105@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You know, I kinda remember the grey van cooling right off coming down some of the passes between Grand Targhee and the coast on the way back from a festival there many years ago. Miles of closed-throttle overrun in a loaded van. We're talking the needle halfway to the LED and in 95 degree temps too. So at the time it was a good thing, but I can see that you would be less than thrilled with that in wintry conditions. You need input from the Colorado crowd.

On Dec 1, 2007 10:39 AM, Michael Elliott <camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:

> Tenterhooks? Hanging on to my every word, I bet! I have learned to keep my > posts simple and single-subject to avoid spinning off into a thread > unrelated to what I was asking about. In this case, the engine temp. > > On the downhill, the engine was cool enough to cause the ECU to go into > open loop, as mentioned. You're right: when closed-loop, the O2 monitor > would normally go off-scale in the lean direction with the foot off the > gas and the engine spun up by the transmission. But when open loop, the > injectors dump in some predetermined amount of fuel, which I saw on the > monitor. So the engine wasn't not generating heat. > > I guess I better crack the Bentley's -- where is the dash temp gauge > sensor located, anyway? I was running the heater, maybe there simply > wasn't enough waste heat left over to dump into the radiator. > > So I reckon the question is whether this is normal behavior: would long > downhill in 35F - 55F weather, with the heater on, result in an engine so > cool that the ECU goes open loop and the temp gauge rides only about 1/3rd > up from the full-left dead cold setting? > > As for mileage, there is an improvement. Can't say exactly what made the > difference. My Mount Laguna trip is once a month (had to skip last month > due to fire closure), so I'd rather not try one thing at a time to see > what makes a difference as life is too short, esp. at my age. > > City mpg pre wheel alignment(but post changing timing and some other > fussing about): 13.7 mpg > > City mpg post alignment: 15.6 mpg. > > Mount Laguna run pre-alignment (and pre all that other stuff): 16.7 mpg > > Mount Laguna run post-everything: 17.9 mpg. > > The rear wheels are still not aligned -- the shop didn't know how. I'll > get that handled before the next run. > > > -- > Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott > 71 Type 2: the Wonderbus > 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana") > 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano > KG6RCR > > > > On 12/1/2007 10:23 AM Jake de Villiers wrote: > > > The new thermostat obviously has a lower opening temperature than > > your original or it wouldn't have moved where the needle rides on your > > existing gauge. That may or may not be a good thing. > > > > I'm wondering how the engine could possibly make any heat on a long > > downhill on overrun if the fuel cut-off switch has taken the gas out of > > the combustion chambers. I mean, its damn cold outside and you're > > pumping that air through the engine and there's no combustion. Ergo, > > you're freezing your ass off. :) > > > > Maybe you'll need to idle your way down those long grades to keep > > the water temperature up. > > > > How was your gas mileage? We're all on tenterhooks.......... > > > > On Dec 1, 2007 9:33 AM, Michael Elliott <camping.elliott@gmail.com > > <mailto:camping.elliott@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > A couple months ago I replaced the water pump -- it was making an > > ominous > > grinding noise. Felt crappy when it was removed, too. Installed a > > new Temp > > II sensor and thermostat at the same time. The thermostat came from > > one of > > the usual online presences, can't recall exactly who but could find > > out if > > it's relevant. The packing list noted that it was one that was set > > for 10 > > degree cooler than stock. > > > > Indeed, with normal city driving at outside temps in the 70F range, > the > > temp gauge seems to rest just at the left edge of the LED whereas > > previously it rode straight up, bisecting the lamp. > > > > This morning I just returned from a two-night camping trip in the > San > > Diego mountains. It was 35F this morning and the first 2/3rds of the > > drive > > are mostly downhill, a 6,000 ft elevation drop in about 60 miles. > > For most > > of the downhill portion, the temp needle sat between the painted > > "box" at > > the left-hand side of the meter face (this is a 1984 1.9L) and the > left > > edge of the LED, mostly closer to that painted box than the LED. In > > other > > words, at about halfway between left (dead cold) and straight up. > > > > The engine was so cool that the ECU went open-loop during long > > downhills > > (auto transmission in "2," holding road speed down), as determined > > by the > > Ken Lewis O2 monitor. > > > > Once I got to the flats, in 55F temp, freeway speeds of 70 mph or > > so, the > > needle rarely kissed the left edge of the LED. > > > > This is new behavior, I'm not used to seeing the engine run that > cool. I > > know that a thermostat with a cooler set point may make it run > > cooler when > > it's not being worked hard, but it should keep the engine warm. I > can't > > recall seeing the coolant that cold during downhills. That said, > > this was > > the coldest weather I've made that run in. But still. > > > > Next month I'll make the same trip, and it could be 20F cooler. I > > want to > > be certain that the thermostat isn't, like, stuck open or anything. > > > > -- > > Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott > > 71 Type 2: the Wonderbus > > 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana") > > 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano > > KG6RCR > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jake > > 1984 Vanagon GL > > 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie" > > Crescent Beach, BC > > www.crescentbeachguitar.com <http://www.crescentbeachguitar.com> > > http://subyjake.googlepages.com/ >

-- Jake 1984 Vanagon GL 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie" Crescent Beach, BC www.crescentbeachguitar.com http://subyjake.googlepages.com/


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