Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:04:21 -0500
Reply-To: Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Subject: Re: 1985 Vanagon - Ford Focus Engine alternative
In-Reply-To: <2075.192.168.0.115.1200073163.squirrel@hasenwerk.homeip.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On 1/11/08, David Marshall <mailinglist@fastforward.ca> wrote:
> That's total turkey... you're comparing a highly modified engine to a
> *stock* TDI engine.
No you aren't. It's a stock zetec. We've bolted on a turbocharger, but
the engine is stock, and quite capable of the power levels we're
targetting.
How long will a 1 bar gasoline turbo engine
> last?
It isn't 1 bar, it'll be about 8-9 psi targetting 200hp@4400 and
235ft/lbs@2900 of torque with gas. 150k miles is a good target for
longevity. But anywhere after 100k it's worth swapping the engine to
another low mile one so you have another new engine in the van,
especially since it is about the same price and same labor as doing a
timing belt on the other options. If you want to nurse it into old age
you can.. but I'm not a fan of high mileage engines, and don't need
bragging rights as to how many miles I have on an engine, less is
more. To me that need just means the engine is expensive enough itself
or labor/trouble to swap it out are high so that it must be nursed
into old age or it's value proposition falls apart. Ours is still
supported in either scenario.
>Quoting their site: "The first trip to the dyno with the
> turbo kit prototype" sounds like a mature solution that has
> been around for millions of kilometers. :-)
True, but the whole operation is about managing risk no? There is a
point in every powertrain's lifecycle when it isn't mature. What's
more, we're not designing the engine, just the power adder system, the
tune, and the support systems. This sounds eerily similar to the "oh
you don't have millions of dollars so you can't make anything
reliable" which is either a pathetic scare tactic, or spoken by
someone with a gross lack of understanding of what is currently
possible with very little money. The outcome will depend on our
capabilities at managing risk associated with the upgrade, and our
ability to implement the whole thing carefully. Can anyone do it? No.
Can it be done and be reliable? Yes. Can we do it? I strongly believe
so, but the proof is in the pudding, and backed up by a good warranty
from people capable of honoring it. Just like OEMs, part of what we do
is find the balance in all of the various modes of risk intrusion..
nobody's perfect, but without being too much of jerk, I'd argue we do
it better than anyone else in the space. We do not follow the OEMs in
there levels of efficiency(or lack thereof), but exploit them where it
makes sense(like not developing the engine itself, starting with their
factory tunes and tweak, use common parts etc). It's funny to note
that in our lifetime as a company we outperformed GM two years in a
row.. ha doesn't mean much but it's a funny truth. Eventually we are
going to produce an entire vehicle, we're just going a piece at a time
and learning as we go, and hopefully we won't be smuggling coke and
screw the whole thing up. It's funny, but others have also criticized
us for "learning as we go"... as if that equals high customer risk
automatically, which it doesn't. And then the flip side... I'd much
rather be learning as we go, than not.
> Repeat after me:
>
> - Safety in numbers (if it breaks, have
> something everyone else has so you can get parts)
exactly
> - The farther I go
> from stock, the more I am my own warranty
In your case true, but not if you have someone else that is doing the
development and managing the risk for you like our customers do. I
wouldn't have sold anyone an R-TDI or developed a conversion for it
for lot's of reasons but if you look at problem #1, you would end up
breaking your transmission with it. Furthermore, in the instance that
you must be your own warranty and if yours is gone, the risks are
still lower.. like I said, a $400 low mileage replacement engine is a
lower risk proposition than anything else out there should you need to
be your own warranty.
Guys that try to go to the moon don't do it because they think it's
safe, and they don't do it because they expect to die. There is a
balance in there somewhere, and those with the ability to collect,
manage, and utilize the right information are the ones most likely to
succeed. If you have no big aspirations, you have no risk to worry
about. By definition vanagon guys looking to convert are already out
of that category, it's just a matter of with whom they'd like to
partner to increase their chances of success and help them manage the
risk.
Jim Akiba
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