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Date:         Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:27:54 -0800
Reply-To:     Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Diesel vs Gas Vanagons
Comments: To: Jim Akiba <syncrolist@bostig.com>
In-Reply-To:  <ac1f198b0801112352u34fcb23fo8f050da84b497827@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Nicely explained Jim. The thought of just replacing the whole motor takes some getting used to for us old guys, but we'll catch on eventually.

When are you going to build a beautiful, complete, well-engineered and well-made kit for Subaru motor installation? 8-)

On Jan 11, 2008 11:52 PM, Jim Akiba <syncrolist@bostig.com> wrote:

> On 1/12/08, Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: > > 'more granular' ...........?? > > I think you mean 'more basic' perhaps based on your sentence after that > one. > > No I really mean more granular as in a lower/deeper finer-grained > level that normally composes a larger whole, but when taken apart > becomes more "granular". A ball of dirt is a ball of dirt until you > throw it at your classmate and it becomes dust on his jacket. > > > I'd say if you just want it done and working well with the least effort, > do > > the engine swap of course. If you want to have the reward of taking > your > > engine all apart and re-doing most of it.....then do that. But the > fastest > > easiest way to a nicely running van again is always a 'good used > engine.' > > Right, and are most guys that are contemplating an engine > conversion(or who could benefit most) at the level where they would > actually find it rewarding? Or would it turn into a > totally-not-worth-it exercise where they learn how NOT to do it > several different ways. > > > Of course I don't think the average joe should be digging into their > engine > > if it's not 'their thing' . where'd you get that ?? > > Well we are talking about average joe's I thought... > > > I do not disagree with you about the head thing especially. Perhaps > we're > > in different worlds, but until you I've never heard anyone say that. I > also > > am not involved with small displacement racing engines...........rice > burner > > street cars with 400 hp etc. ........perhaps it's from that world . I > > mean, isn't it common to remove a head for port work or valve work to > > increase power, for example ???? > > No it's from the v8 muscle crowd too. That's why some guys like to see > what they can tweak out of stock heads first.. and compete with each > other in that regard... keeping the heads as the final bottleneck.. > then they break into the longblock and go for the big numbers. It's > common to port and polish a head, I've done many, but it's common > knowledge that you're not going to get the same sealing as you did > before you pulled the head.. this is especially true of the forced > induction guys. > > > If for my turbo Volvo sedan needs a head job, I sure won't feel > like > > it is somehow 'compromised forever' . Much older tech engine of > course. > > Might be a factor. > > More importantly very low power output per cubic inch. That's the > distinction that might be what you're talking about... while still > true, you may never notice it because the demands on the seal are much > lower to begin with. > > > I find it noteworthy that you say that that a re-done head is 'bad' > almost. > > You seem to think I'm saying your wrong or silly about the head thing. . > I'm > > not. I just find it noteworthy. > > For instance, one of our customers also has a new beetle. His timing > belt broke and we have lot's of funny shaped valves.. and kissed > pistons. The dealer was ready to replace teh head for $4k. I told him > look... it's a turbo engine.. it'll never seal the same, and for about > the same money you can have a replacement engine that is factory > sealed. I wasn't about to do a head for him.. I've done plenty of > heads, and done plenty of whole engines.. the whole engines don't have > problems, redone heads (not mine ha) often do. > > > Every tech has their own methods..........all good ones do. . What > I > > admire is that they HAVE their own methods and beliefs, and get results. > > That it might be different than my method doesn't bother me. > > You know, if a focus owner drives up with a head gasket > issue...........i > > or someone else might say 'head job' and you'd say 'new used engine.' > > .............both methods work. If you are adamant that they engine with > > head work can never be the same.............fine. Don't wish to argue > it. > > I'm sure your view has great merit. Not saying it's wrong > > either...........surprising. thought. > > Keep that in your head.. and lurk on other boards.. this isn't "my" > idea by any means... I'm equally as surprised that you've never heard > it before me. > > > I'll say I've never heard anyone suggest it before, but you might > be > > in a whole different environment that I am, and I don't know a thing > about > > ford Zetec engines. They could be awful after head jobs for all I know. > Just > > surprising is all. > > No, it's not the zetec specifically, it's any engine. And it's even > more important in engines made in the last 15-20 years which is when > two things happened. One the quality of the factory assembly work went > up quickly, and two, the output per cubic inch went up.. making the > results of that fact more prevalent. > > > All right, I see you have great appreciation for factory new things. It > is > > after all, the trend in everything for them to be made and then disposed > of > > when their life is used up. People don't rebuild computers for example. > Its > > always cheaper to just get a newer and better one. It's going that way > in > > cars too. > > Kind of, but it isn't an appreciation of "factory new things" it the > appreciation of *certain* factory utilized technologies and process > controls that impress me. > > > Perhaps this is a factor - ALL the engines I'm ever involved with are > 10 > > year old technology and have over 100K on them. I don't see 2000 and > > something 15K mile engines at all, tho someday I'll do a later subaru > > perhaps.............so 'it's normal' for me that they're older, or > worthy of > > head work say. > > I think that's right... although I'd push the date further back than > just 10 years... this is almost identical to what I wrote above... > interesting. That may be it indeed. > > > Like with 90's era subaru engines, and 80's waterboxer ones, 600 > dollar > > low mile engines are not even an option, so there's no even thinking > about > > popping in a newer low miles cheap long block. So it's not even normal > for > > me to think that way, given the stuff I deal with normally. > > So I just find the mentality different than what I'm used to, and > > interesting, but certainly not 'wrong.' Very valid, especially with > the > > availability and low cost with low miles. > > Perhaps I'm too paranoid but as I mentioned this is all new.. this > idea, this capability, this approach. People know you're posts, they > look to you for technical guidance, so if you are a skeptic others are > more likely to trust it as well and feed into the natural > skepticism... so it isn't that I'm particularly offended, but my > response in this situation is as natural as yours. Any idea of merit > should be able to withstand all kinds of skepticism, but it is much > harder to turn it around in people's minds if objectivity is destroyed > by the right(or maybe wrong?) person's skepticism and crystallizes > into another's belief system, the incumbent ideology seems to usually > have an advantage unless people are actually in distress. > > Jim Akiba >

-- Jake 1984 Vanagon GL 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie" Crescent Beach, BC www.crescentbeachguitar.com http://subyjake.googlepages.com/


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