Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 03:17:34 EST
Reply-To: FrankGRUN@AOL.COM
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Frank Grunthaner <FrankGRUN@AOL.COM>
Subject: Pointing out the Facts on Vanagon Diesels
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Good Grief! I just saw this exchange triggered by Scott and others purloining
a reasonable vehicle with words based on anecdotal wisdom and I had to reply!
I reproduce some of this so-called wisdom at the end of this email. Those who
have followed any of my dissertations know the low regard I have for those
who improve on factory engineering with anecdotal (several cases ill measured)
redesigns such as reducing engine rpm to enhance longevity.
But on to this case. The N/A engine was extensively tested by VW engineers
during the Vanagon diesel development cycle. Including more than a million miles
in variable load dynamometer testing, and more than 250,000 km in the Sahara
desert and the Swedish tundra. This winter and summer test program stressed
the cooling and lubrication systems as well as the air handling in dust and ice.
The passenger car version of the 1.6l diesel was detuned from 53.6 hp @ 4800
to 49.6 hp @ 4200 rpm for the vanagon version. This resulted in a torque
peak of 76.0 ft-lbs at 2000 rpm up from the passenger version's 73 ft-lbs. The
power curve was virtually flat from 3700 to 4300 rpm. Maximum speed was rated
for the kombi version as 110 km/hr or 68.4 mph. The Westfalia version was DIN
rated for a max speed of 65.0 mph at half rated load. The rigorous DIN fuel
economy test with 50% city and 50% urban cycles gave a rated average of 25.5 mpg
also at half rated load. The vanagon diesel was rated for pulling a 1200 kg
towed load up a 12% grade without slowing in 4th gear. Hill climbing ability was
rated at a 24% grade at full load and 30% at half load. The diesel package
added 100 kg to the overall weight of the vanagon compared to the air-cooled gas
version. Of that 35 kg went to the front tires, 65 to the rear. Just
engineering facts. For those who want to see the data, Alistair has posted the original
technical papers on his website. Along with extensive info on the vehicle
design, the engineering behind various VW engines including turbodiesels. I will
send up the translated papers on the various TDi engines when I complete them.
The link is:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/ragnarhairybreeks/technical%20articles%202/diesel/D
Vtrans.html
Now as to my anecdotal experience, I purchased my Westfalia for factory
delivery and put more than 120,000 miles on the engine before I changed it out due
to boredom. No engine problems except for the replacement of glow plugs at
about 65,000 miles. Went through a bundle of starters though. The fellow who
bought my N/A diesel says he has put more than 80,000 miles on it without the head
off. Oil consumption is now at 400 miles per quart. Now, the Westy is/was
equipped with the DZ transmission and I constantly logged a top speed of 62 mph
on SoCal freeways, 65 down hill and usually 55 to 60 on long cross-country
grades. I drove the vehicle with a digital throttle (full off or full on) and
regulated speed with the gear shift and brake. I crossed the Brenner Pass in
second with a cold bottle of Augustinerbrau and enjoyed it immensely. The engine
was designed for extensive full throttle operation at 4200 rpm and I ran it
there as much as possible. In Europe, the USA, Canada and Mexico. While the engine
was slow it was dead reliable. As was the refrigerator and my necessary
supply of cold liquid.
Let's see, unusual maintenance ... well I religiously drained water from the
water/fuel filter once per month. Changed oil on my normal schedule (2000
miles for the first two with paraffin based diesel truck oils, then every 5000
with synthetic. Checked coolant every month. Changed oil filters with each oil
change. Kept the oil level just above add. Oh yeah, and I never, never, never
lugged that engine. Spin!
After swapping out the diesel for the 1.8l digifant RV with the DZ trans
still in place, I cheerfully ran it up to 100 mph (6500 rpm) and ran across parts
of Texas. Generally I ran on the open freeway at 85 mph with full A/C on (5700
rpm) since the vanagon felt better at those speeds. But those details are all
in various rpm/power/drag/thrust reports in the vanagon list archives. During
several oil pan pulls as I was experimenting with windage trays, baffles and
whatnot, I examined the crank journals, the cylinder sidewalls and piston
sidewalls. I also used the boroscope to examine top piston surfaces, cylinder
upper sidewalls and the combustion chamber/valve heads. Never anything other than
clean shiny metal! These speeds are often referred to as an Italian Tune-up.
But after extensive runs between 5500 and 6500 rpm, there was no evidence of
carbon build up on the combustion chamber head surface and a light gray sheen on
the piston tops. Haven't taken the head off yet, so can't say more. But more
than 85,000 miles on the RV engine under these conditions and the oil burn
rate is still at 1500 miles per quart. Fine by me.
Just my 2 centimes,
Frank Grunthaner
In a message dated 1/13/08 7:53:37 PM, ScottDaniel@turbovans.com writes:
>
> Hi, nice to see you addressing the realities of stock 82 1.6 diesel vanagons
> in the US market.
>
> "Usually' manufacturers are testing out prototype and pre-production
> vehicles in various conditions and countries prior to marketing them., Like
> BMW or Mercedes or whomever will have pre-production models here testing
> them in our worst desert summer heat, or in Alaska or Sweden testing them in
> extreme cold - all a year or two sometimes, before actually shipping their
> exact US models here.
>
> One would have to guess that they didn't do that very much here with 48 hp
> 1.6 NA 82 diesel vanagons. It sure doesn't seem like it anyway.
>
> There you are -........... There yo There you are -...........<wbr>.......
> together long term really well if it's run at 90 % all the time'
> ............ ............<wbr>so true. Then why sell them in a market whe
> to cast iron block inline sixes and V-8's and we have wide open roads that
> go on forever in some places ? Not that smart.
> I tell people stock diesel vanagons are around town delivery type
> vehicles. Used that way they are FINE .
>
> But, used the way Americans often use cars and vans, stock they are not
> very well matched to our conditions, and not able to protect themselves, (
> the vans and engines ) from being driven hard. So compared to what Americans
> are used to.......... are used to..........<wbr>they are delicate. And how
> vw engines..... vw engines.....<wbr>........namely air-cooled ones traditi
> vans ( it's *always* lots more stress on a car engine pushing a van of
> course ) .........and 48 hp 1.6 NA engines are not really up to the task,
> and often just blow to shreds. ............ and often just blow to shre
> That's all.
>
>
>
**************
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
| 
