Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:41:19 -0800
Reply-To: Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Pointing out the Facts on Vanagon Diesels
In-Reply-To: <ce5.25eb9151.34bc749e@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Always good to hear from you again, Frank.
I also have to second that anecdotal emotion.
My 2 liter ABA inline four now has over 225,000
miles on it . using oil, some power loss, but
still doing it's job.
I've toyed with the idea of going to a Diesel
again. Would probably work well with my AAP
5-speed gas trans with the 4.57 final.
I missed a chance to get a 1.6 Golf hydraulic in
November. I'm thinking of Dieseling the '82
Diesel Westfalia again for long road trips, and
using the '87 Jetta for local use.
A 1.9 would be nice.
Robert
1982 Westfalia
--- Frank Grunthaner <FrankGRUN@AOL.COM> wrote:
> Good Grief! I just saw this exchange triggered
> by Scott and others purloining
> a reasonable vehicle with words based on
> anecdotal wisdom and I had to reply!
> I reproduce some of this so-called wisdom at
> the end of this email. Those who
> have followed any of my dissertations know the
> low regard I have for those
> who improve on factory engineering with
> anecdotal (several cases ill measured)
> redesigns such as reducing engine rpm to
> enhance longevity.
>
> But on to this case. The N/A engine was
> extensively tested by VW engineers
> during the Vanagon diesel development cycle.
> Including more than a million miles
> in variable load dynamometer testing, and more
> than 250,000 km in the Sahara
> desert and the Swedish tundra. This winter and
> summer test program stressed
> the cooling and lubrication systems as well as
> the air handling in dust and ice.
> The passenger car version of the 1.6l diesel
> was detuned from 53.6 hp @ 4800
> to 49.6 hp @ 4200 rpm for the vanagon version.
> This resulted in a torque
> peak of 76.0 ft-lbs at 2000 rpm up from the
> passenger version's 73 ft-lbs. The
> power curve was virtually flat from 3700 to
> 4300 rpm. Maximum speed was rated
> for the kombi version as 110 km/hr or 68.4 mph.
> The Westfalia version was DIN
> rated for a max speed of 65.0 mph at half rated
> load. The rigorous DIN fuel
> economy test with 50% city and 50% urban cycles
> gave a rated average of 25.5 mpg
> also at half rated load. The vanagon diesel was
> rated for pulling a 1200 kg
> towed load up a 12% grade without slowing in
> 4th gear. Hill climbing ability was
> rated at a 24% grade at full load and 30% at
> half load. The diesel package
> added 100 kg to the overall weight of the
> vanagon compared to the air-cooled gas
> version. Of that 35 kg went to the front tires,
> 65 to the rear. Just
> engineering facts. For those who want to see
> the data, Alistair has posted the original
> technical papers on his website. Along with
> extensive info on the vehicle
> design, the engineering behind various VW
> engines including turbodiesels. I will
> send up the translated papers on the various
> TDi engines when I complete them.
> The link is:
>
>
http://www.members.shaw.ca/ragnarhairybreeks/technical%20articles%202/diesel/D
> Vtrans.html
>
> Now as to my anecdotal experience, I purchased
> my Westfalia for factory
> delivery and put more than 120,000 miles on the
> engine before I changed it out due
> to boredom. No engine problems except for the
> replacement of glow plugs at
> about 65,000 miles. Went through a bundle of
> starters though. The fellow who
> bought my N/A diesel says he has put more than
> 80,000 miles on it without the head
> off. Oil consumption is now at 400 miles per
> quart. Now, the Westy is/was
> equipped with the DZ transmission and I
> constantly logged a top speed of 62 mph
> on SoCal freeways, 65 down hill and usually 55
> to 60 on long cross-country
> grades. I drove the vehicle with a digital
> throttle (full off or full on) and
> regulated speed with the gear shift and brake.
> I crossed the Brenner Pass in
> second with a cold bottle of Augustinerbrau and
> enjoyed it immensely. The engine
> was designed for extensive full throttle
> operation at 4200 rpm and I ran it
> there as much as possible. In Europe, the USA,
> Canada and Mexico. While the engine
> was slow it was dead reliable. As was the
> refrigerator and my necessary
> supply of cold liquid.
>
> Let's see, unusual maintenance ... well I
> religiously drained water from the
> water/fuel filter once per month. Changed oil
> on my normal schedule (2000
> miles for the first two with paraffin based
> diesel truck oils, then every 5000
> with synthetic. Checked coolant every month.
> Changed oil filters with each oil
> change. Kept the oil level just above add. Oh
> yeah, and I never, never, never
> lugged that engine. Spin!
>
> After swapping out the diesel for the 1.8l
> digifant RV with the DZ trans
> still in place, I cheerfully ran it up to 100
> mph (6500 rpm) and ran across parts
> of Texas. Generally I ran on the open freeway
> at 85 mph with full A/C on (5700
> rpm) since the vanagon felt better at those
> speeds. But those details are all
> in various rpm/power/drag/thrust reports in the
> vanagon list archives. During
> several oil pan pulls as I was experimenting
> with windage trays, baffles and
> whatnot, I examined the crank journals, the
> cylinder sidewalls and piston
> sidewalls. I also used the boroscope to examine
> top piston surfaces, cylinder
> upper sidewalls and the combustion
> chamber/valve heads. Never anything other than
> clean shiny metal! These speeds are often
> referred to as an Italian Tune-up.
> But after extensive runs between 5500 and 6500
> rpm, there was no evidence of
> carbon build up on the combustion chamber head
> surface and a light gray sheen on
> the piston tops. Haven't taken the head off
> yet, so can't say more. But more
> than 85,000 miles on the RV engine under these
> conditions and the oil burn
> rate is still at 1500 miles per quart. Fine by
> me.
>
> Just my 2 centimes,
>
> Frank Grunthaner
>
> In a message dated 1/13/08 7:53:37 PM,
> ScottDaniel@turbovans.com writes:
>
>
> >
> > Hi, nice to see you addressing the realities
> of stock 82 1.6 diesel vanagons
> > in the US market.
> >
> > "Usually' manufacturers are testing out
> prototype and pre-production
> > vehicles in various conditions and countries
> prior to marketing them., Like
> > BMW or Mercedes or whomever will have
> pre-production models here testing
> > them in our worst desert summer heat, or in
> Alaska or Sweden testing them in
> > extreme cold - all a year or two sometimes,
> before actually shipping their
> > exact US models here.
> >
> > One would have to guess that they didn't do
> that very much here with 48 hp
> > 1.6 NA 82 diesel vanagons. It sure doesn't
> seem like it anyway.
> >
> > There you are -........... There yo There you
> are -...........<wbr>.......
> > together long term really well if it's run at
> 90 % all the time'
> > ............ ............<wbr>so true. Then
> why sell them in a market whe
> > to cast iron block inline sixes and V-8's and
> we have wide open roads that
> > go on forever in some places ? Not that
> smart.
> > I tell people stock diesel vanagons are
> around town delivery type
> > vehicles. Used that way they are FINE .
> >
> > But, used the way Americans often use cars
> and vans, stock they are not
> > very well matched to our conditions, and not
> able to protect themselves, (
> > the vans and engines ) from being driven
> hard. So compared to what Americans
> > are used to.......... are used
> to..........<wbr>they are delicate. And how
> > vw engines..... vw
> engines.....<wbr>........namely air-cooled ones
> traditi
> > vans ( it's *always* lots more stress on a
> car engine pushing a van of
> > course ) .........and 48 hp 1.6 NA engines
> are not really up to the task,
> > and often just blow to shreds. ............
> and often just blow to shre
> > That's all.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> **************
> Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in
> shape.
>
>
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
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