Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:02:15 -0600
Reply-To: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Felder <jim.felder@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Want to talk me out of buying diesel Vanagon?-No but here's
my .02 worth (long)
In-Reply-To: <d51.1f578d4d.34c396b7@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I don't want to corrupt the original intention of this post, which was a
decision between an 82 diesel vanagon in not-very-good shape and a mercedes
diesel.
I love my diesel westy, but in this case, the choice between a car in good
condition and a car in bad condition, I'd take the one in good condition
unless there was some other extraordinary reason to do otherwise.
But now the part about trash-talking diesel vanagons. I've seen enough
diesel-vanagon-dissing here in the last few weeks that I thought I'd speak
briefly on the collective behalves of these vehicle and the owners who love
them.
First, from what I've read, most people's problems seem to be with
four-speed 82s in poor shape, like it's a given that out of all the cars on
the planet this is the one nobody is going to spend more than 1500 to buy.
The problems they describe don't match my (admittedly subjective)
experiences in my 83 five speed. If you are going to bash diesel vanagons in
general, drive a five speed first. A few of you will say that you already
have, but realize that I'm talking to those fond of projecting their
four-speed experiences onto everyone considering any kind of 1.6 diesel
vanagon.
A lot has been made over the fast that one may never recover the cost of
conversion. To avoid that, don't convert, find a diesel vanagon and drive
it. Just don't bash diesel vanagons in general because of the cost of
converting a gasser to diesel. That has nothing to do with the merits of a
good diesel vanagon.
Third, don't compare a crappy, abused, rusty vanagon diesel with one in good
shape. I found one in good shape (except for the head) and I've been driving
it exclusively for the last several months while my 90 carat is sidelined
with engine problems. I've never had it towed, it doesn't do anything weird,
everything works, etc. except the turn signal LED. In other words, my
experience has not been in line with the misery I've read recently
associated with these vehicles. Again, it stems from the fact that the car
originally was a pretty good design (though that takes a lot of bashing
nowadays as vanagons are compared with every more modern craft) and was in
generally good shape when I got it. I was not trying to resurrect a basket
case.
Finally, this power thing. I know people, good friends actually, who buy the
fastest things they can get their hands on and love it until they read that
somebody is coming out with something faster, and then they buy that. They
don't believe that no matter what they buy, something faster will come along
later, and the car they are driving now will be too slow for them. I have a
problem with that on way too many levels to go into here, except on one
level, it's just part of our American impatience, which is so much a part of
our economy, but since that's going to have to change, why kick the diesel
vanagon out of the picture now? Hey, it may be the fastest thing on the road
in 20 years. I hope not, but we don't know.
If you think about it, all this horsepower increase since the early eighties
has not heightened the driving experience, it has nearly ruined it. It has
made freeway driving fearsome much of the time. It has made city driving
nearly impossible without many, many expensive contrivances (like
stoplights) to give drivers even a chance to get into the traffic flow. It
provides people with the illusion that they are getting somewhere faster
than they did, when that is in fact simply not true much of the time.
I know there are areas of the country where people are actually taking their
lives into their own hands to drive anything slower than the fastest cars on
the road. I pity you, because the diesel vanagon is really not every going
to work there except maybe like Karl and others have modified them. But for
most people, in most places, this dissing of a slow, reliable old camper is
splitting hairs. If you took all the things the car did well and made an
objective table with the information, including its mileage and camping
functions, it would stack up well against most anything else.
I live in a state with some fairly big cities, lots of small exurban cities
with big-city driving problems, interstates, backroads, farmland, logging
trails, hills, very steep hills and flats. I have gotten around it just fine
for 50,000 miles so far in a diesel westy, much of that time loaded to the
top with a photographer and his equipment. The lack of power or speed never
kept me from doing one single thing along those miles that I didn't want to
do.
I'm not saying that diesel vanagons are for everyone, I just don't agree
with the many reasons presented here recently that they are not for anyone.
Jim
On Jan 19, 2008 12:08 PM, David Clarkson <Dvdclarksn@aol.com> wrote:
> Okay, I'm not here to talk you out of a vanagon diesel; only to speak from
> experience. Let's start with the facts. 67 BHP off the showroom floor. Top
> speed from my 82 diesel Westfalia (or Westfailure as my better half
> referred to
> it) was 67 mph. I rebuilt a Quantum engine and the turbo and the injector
> pump
> for transplantation to cure this. Take that Vanagon! Transplant
> rejected.
> Lesson learned: buying your grandmother a pair of running shoes does not
> mean
> that she will then be able to run a 4 minute mile. Am I a bit jaded?
> Maybe.
> Do I miss my diesel Westy? Yes. Do I love my wife for bringing home a 90
> Westy and saying, "I'll buy this for you if you'll sell that damned
> diesel."?
> Yes. She is the glue that bonds me to reality. I had a bumper sticker on
> my 82
> diesel Westy that said, "0-50 in 11 minutes". That was of course a joke.
> It
> would only reach that speed in 11 minutes downhill with a tail wind. What
> are
> the upsides of owning a diesel vanagon? I averaged 28 MPG. I got to pull
> up
> and fuel up alongside the Big Rigs. That's a big 10-4 good buddy! I had
> the
> option to run on bio diesel and have everyone following in my fume trail
> reminisce about their last visit to a fast McFood establishment. I learned
> how to
> sniff out diesel refueling points anywhere on the planet. Diesel may
> become the
> way for us all if we decide to divorce OPEC. We can make it out of bamboo,
> switchgrass and other sources that are readily apparent to the open minded
> fuel
> consumer. It is the original flex-fuel. Yes, used french fry oil will
> burn
> in your diesel but you'll need to strain the burned fries out so they
> don't
> clog your injectors and heat it to a non-gelling temperature so it flows
> freely
> through the fuel system. I've done the homework here and eventually sold
> my
> 82 diesel Westy to an open minded Hippy Chick (the old Deadhead uses that
> term with great affection here BTW) who vowed to give it life eternal on
> bio
> diesel. My 82 diesel and I had many wonderful times together. Some spent
> on the
> side of the road waiting for a wrecker. What kept me motivated and
> spending
> the megabucks on it were the stories of other VW diesel enthusiasts that
> said
> once you get them running properly they'll go for 300,000-400, 000 miles.
> I
> don't doubt that. Mine was just a lemon and I couldn't make lemonade
> despite
> my best intentions. I really tried! I threw money at it from all
> directions
> and still maintain a 200-300 page file documenting my efforts and
> intentions.
> My mechanic told me in so many words by referring to it as the space
> shuttle-"You can spend 500 million dollars on it and it still won't get
> off the
> ground!". His kid's can afford to go to college now thanks to my generous
> financial endowment. Buy what you like. Follow your bliss and fare thee
> well. I hope
> you get a real gem. Just know going into the journey what to expect. If a
> Vanagon diesel is in your future you should not be in a rush to get
> anywhere
> quickly. You need to be patient and understanding that 67 horses don't
> move 3850
> lbs. anywhere to quickly. Probably the worst hp./weight ratio of any
> vehicle
> on the planet. There is a certain charm and mystique to these
> contraptions
> though. Enough said. I now don my flameproof underwear and await your
> responses listees. As always YMMV and this post is all in good humor
> with no intent
> to offend anyone that is going to prove to be oversensitive about their
> dear
> vehicle. I am the foremost expert on my opinion. I'm talking about my
> experience with my vehicle not your kids,your wife,your mother or your
> dog. Let's
> keep it fun, informative and real. I love this list.
>
> In Vanagon We trust,
>
> David Clarkson
> 90 Westy (246k) and former owner of an 82 Westy (AKA the "dearly
> departed")
>
>
>
> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
>
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