Vanagon EuroVan
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Date:         Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:11:37 -0600
Reply-To:     Dan Weeks <theprofileco@DWX.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dan Weeks <theprofileco@DWX.COM>
Subject:      Re: Want to talk me out of buying diesel Vanagon?-No but here's
              my .02 worth (long)
In-Reply-To:  <4d1b79350801191102m6754d203n1d937d6bbd0b5f28@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Amen, Jim. And I have an '82 4-speed 1.6TD. Love it. Have driven it 35k miles, almost exclusively on long trips, many times fully loaded (Jim already knows this, as he and I have p-mailed extensively. I'm just chiming in on his comments to the rest.) It has never left me stranded. I did drive 1600 miles with no exhaust manifold gasket once, and thus only 3 lbs of boost, but it got me home--and at 65 mph, too (no headwinds that trip!).

I have spent a bunch of money on mine, first trying to ressurect a worn-out NA, then doing a TD conversion. It's been worth every bit of it, and would probably sell now for what I have in it. I would have spent less money, and time, if I had taken the thing straight from the seller to Karl or Scott or someone equally qualified, and had them go over the whole thing top to bottom, sparing nothing. This is what I would now do if I had it to do over again, and this is what I would recommend anyone wanting a a conversion of any kind, do: Find a van with a great body and interior. Take it to an expert and have it completely done right, damn the expense, the first time, and maintain it meticulously. You'll not be sorry. Or, find one being sold by someone who's got everything sorted out by a pro, and the receipts to prove it.

Nickel-and-diming your way into a good running conversion is an exercise in frustration, and you end up wasting a bunch of money. It is possible to mess them up in ways that can not even be conceived of, and are very difficult and expensive to diagnose. My TD conversion did not have that problem, as I did it with a JX engine, eurospec for vanagons in the first place, and it just bolted in and has never been a problem. But I bought an otherwise very nice 83 I-4 conversion that had been badly done, and diagnosing what was wrong has been expensive and frustrating.

Agree about the speed. My 4 spd NA was too slow; I think I would have been satisfied with an 83 5-speed like Jim's. But the TD works nicely with the DK 4 speed, so I'm plenty good. Also, I like being able to tow my sailboat. WOuld love a 5-speed for launching ramps, but works OK as is.

Another 2 cents!

Dan 82 Westy 1.6TD JX DK 83 Westy 1.8 8-valve I-4 gasser (jetta motor)

I'm On Jan 19, 2008, at 1:02 PM, Jim Felder wrote:

> I thought I'd speak > briefly on the collective behalves of these vehicle and the owners > who love > them. > > First, from what I've read, most people's problems seem to be with > four-speed 82s in poor shape, like it's a given that out of all the > cars on > the planet this is the one nobody is going to spend more than 1500 > to buy. > > A lot has been made over the fast that one may never recover the > cost of > conversion. To avoid that, don't convert, find a diesel vanagon and > drive > it. Just don't bash diesel vanagons in general because of the cost of > converting a gasser to diesel. That has nothing to do with the > merits of a > good diesel vanagon. > > Third, don't compare a crappy, abused, rusty vanagon diesel with > one in good > shape. I found one in good shape (except for the head) and I've > been driving > it exclusively for the last several months while my 90 carat is > sidelined > with engine problems. I've never had it towed, it doesn't do > anything weird, > everything works, etc. except the turn signal LED. In other words, my > experience has not been in line with the misery I've read recently > associated with these vehicles. Again, it stems from the fact that > the car > originally was a pretty good design (though that takes a lot of > bashing > nowadays as vanagons are compared with every more modern craft) and > was in > generally good shape when I got it. I was not trying to resurrect a > basket > case. > > Finally, this power thing. I know people, good friends actually, > who buy the > fastest things they can get their hands on and love it until they > read that > somebody is coming out with something faster, and then they buy > that. They > don't believe that no matter what they buy, something faster will > come along > later, and the car they are driving now will be too slow for them. > I have a > problem with that on way too many levels to go into here, except on > one > level, it's just part of our American impatience, which is so much > a part of > our economy, but since that's going to have to change, why kick the > diesel > vanagon out of the picture now? Hey, it may be the fastest thing on > the road > in 20 years. I hope not, but we don't know. > > If you think about it, all this horsepower increase since the early > eighties > has not heightened the driving experience, it has nearly ruined it. > It has > made freeway driving fearsome much of the time. It has made city > driving > nearly impossible without many, many expensive contrivances (like > stoplights) to give drivers even a chance to get into the traffic > flow. It > provides people with the illusion that they are getting somewhere > faster > than they did, when that is in fact simply not true much of the time. > > I know there are areas of the country where people are actually > taking their > lives into their own hands to drive anything slower than the > fastest cars on > the road. I pity you, because the diesel vanagon is really not > every going > to work there except maybe like Karl and others have modified them. > But for > most people, in most places, this dissing of a slow, reliable old > camper is > splitting hairs. If you took all the things the car did well and > made an > objective table with the information, including its mileage and > camping > functions, it would stack up well against most anything else. > > I live in a state with some fairly big cities, lots of small > exurban cities > with big-city driving problems, interstates, backroads, farmland, > logging > trails, hills, very steep hills and flats. I have gotten around it > just fine > for 50,000 miles so far in a diesel westy, much of that time loaded > to the > top with a photographer and his equipment. The lack of power or > speed never > kept me from doing one single thing along those miles that I didn't > want to > do. > > I'm not saying that diesel vanagons are for everyone, I just don't > agree > with the many reasons presented here recently that they are not for > anyone. > > Jim > > > On Jan 19, 2008 12:08 PM, David Clarkson <Dvdclarksn@aol.com> wrote: > >> Okay, I'm not here to talk you out of a vanagon diesel; only to >> speak from >> experience. Let's start with the facts. 67 BHP off the showroom >> floor. Top >> speed from my 82 diesel Westfalia (or Westfailure as my better half >> referred to >> it) was 67 mph. I rebuilt a Quantum engine and the turbo and the >> injector >> pump >> for transplantation to cure this. Take that Vanagon! Transplant >> rejected. >> Lesson learned: buying your grandmother a pair of running shoes >> does not >> mean >> that she will then be able to run a 4 minute mile. Am I a bit >> jaded? >> Maybe. >> Do I miss my diesel Westy? Yes. Do I love my wife for bringing >> home a 90 >> Westy and saying, "I'll buy this for you if you'll sell that damned >> diesel."? >> Yes. She is the glue that bonds me to reality. I had a bumper >> sticker on >> my 82 >> diesel Westy that said, "0-50 in 11 minutes". That was of course >> a joke. >> It >> would only reach that speed in 11 minutes downhill with a tail >> wind. What >> are >> the upsides of owning a diesel vanagon? I averaged 28 MPG. I got >> to pull >> up >> and fuel up alongside the Big Rigs. That's a big 10-4 good buddy! >> I had >> the >> option to run on bio diesel and have everyone following in my fume >> trail >> reminisce about their last visit to a fast McFood establishment. I >> learned >> how to >> sniff out diesel refueling points anywhere on the planet. Diesel may >> become the >> way for us all if we decide to divorce OPEC. We can make it out of >> bamboo, >> switchgrass and other sources that are readily apparent to the >> open minded >> fuel >> consumer. It is the original flex-fuel. Yes, used french fry oil >> will >> burn >> in your diesel but you'll need to strain the burned fries out so >> they >> don't >> clog your injectors and heat it to a non-gelling temperature so >> it flows >> freely >> through the fuel system. I've done the homework here and >> eventually sold >> my >> 82 diesel Westy to an open minded Hippy Chick (the old Deadhead >> uses that >> term with great affection here BTW) who vowed to give it life >> eternal on >> bio >> diesel. My 82 diesel and I had many wonderful times together. >> Some spent >> on the >> side of the road waiting for a wrecker. What kept me motivated and >> spending >> the megabucks on it were the stories of other VW diesel >> enthusiasts that >> said >> once you get them running properly they'll go for 300,000-400, >> 000 miles. >> I >> don't doubt that. Mine was just a lemon and I couldn't make lemonade >> despite >> my best intentions. I really tried! I threw money at it from all >> directions >> and still maintain a 200-300 page file documenting my efforts and >> intentions. >> My mechanic told me in so many words by referring to it as the space >> shuttle-"You can spend 500 million dollars on it and it still >> won't get >> off the >> ground!". His kid's can afford to go to college now thanks to my >> generous >> financial endowment. Buy what you like. Follow your bliss and >> fare thee >> well. I hope >> you get a real gem. Just know going into the journey what to >> expect. If a >> Vanagon diesel is in your future you should not be in a rush to get >> anywhere >> quickly. You need to be patient and understanding that 67 horses >> don't >> move 3850 >> lbs. anywhere to quickly. Probably the worst hp./weight ratio of any >> vehicle >> on the planet. There is a certain charm and mystique to these >> contraptions >> though. Enough said. I now don my flameproof underwear and await >> your >> responses listees. As always YMMV and this post is all in good >> humor >> with no intent >> to offend anyone that is going to prove to be oversensitive about >> their >> dear >> vehicle. I am the foremost expert on my opinion. I'm talking >> about my >> experience with my vehicle not your kids,your wife,your mother or >> your >> dog. Let's >> keep it fun, informative and real. I love this list. >> >> In Vanagon We trust, >> >> David Clarkson >> 90 Westy (246k) and former owner of an 82 Westy (AKA the "dearly >> departed") >> >> >> >> **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. >> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 >>


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