Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:59:00 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Not starting
In-Reply-To: <c803c1a70801251722l4db731a2s968d1b82b6b59abe@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Well, first of all, if you are turning the key straight to 'start' you're
really not supposed to actually.
You are supposed to turn it to 'on' and observe that the warning lights are
on.
I *always* listen for the fuel pump to run a few seconds and then stop.
Then IF those two things are right, then turn it to 'start'.
So first, did the alt, ox, and oil lights come on normally ?
I'll assume they did, but really ..........don't turn you key straight to
'start' ......I've seen many vw's and vanagons with an oil or batt/alt
warning light not working and the driver is completey unaware of it. Which
can lead to engine blow up, cuase you assuemed that woarning light system
was working, and you need to check it each time you turn on the key, THEN
start it, then see that those lights go off.
Next............dosn't sound like you have this, but do think really hard
about the battery cable connections. There's a thing where you turn on the
ign, the battery coonecions can handle that, but when you zap them with
starter load, it breaks the connection. If you get ignition and warning
lights. Hit the starter, and all is dark - go rght to the battery cable
clamps.
Clean and tigten those.
You goal is to get up to rrrr,rrrrr , rrrr.
Cranking on the stater, and then firing off.
If you get click click click click...........that's 'low battery'
You really *must* have a way to check charging voltage with a volt meter
while it's running........13.8 voltls is the min acceptable. Then check it
with headlights on, see if it holds that at 13.8. I like up to 14.5 volts
charging voltage.
Oh................you just have to have a remote starter switch.
The second it doesn't crank right from the key, you connect your remote
starter switch right to the starter, or even, to the 'starter trigger wire'
that you've rigged in your engine compartment so you can quickly connect
your remote starter switch. ( you can make it long enough to touch to the
hot batt terminal on the alternator if you want, then in an emergency you
just touch the wire ther carefully. Keep the wire capped when not in use to
prevent shorts.
So when you operate the starter this way, the entire rest of the car is out
of the picture.....
And if they starter doesn't crank well then...........you work on low / weak
batt, batt cables and connections, ground strap at the trans nose, starter
itself is weak or worn.
If the starter clicks lightly, but won't go ..........
You energize it with the remote starter switch or 'trigger cheater wire' you
rigged, and while holding it energized , whack the stater with a hammer. If
that makes it go one more time, it's a weal./tired starter. So far I've
never seen an esciotion.
But first you get it cranking good from the back.
Then fire it up to make sure it runs, then check charging voltage.
Then start it from the key .........and whatever isn't working right I that
whole process you work on. if it starts fine with the remote starter switch,
but not the key, you work on that....the electrical portion of the ign sw.
If charging voltage is low, you work on that.
If it wont' crank good from the back, you work on that - starter/cables/c
onnections/batt.
"Substitute and Bypass' is how I do the majority of my troubleshooting.
I find out 'oh, it works fine when I bypass or hotwire some system'
..................but not in the normal mode, I know right were to focus.
And you just keep doing that level by level. First level is getting in
cranking, from the back, then from the front, and so on.
You need 'some test' equipment - need a volt meter, a remote starter switch,
and a battery charger........those 3 as a minimum. With out some way to
interface with the system, and take reading and interpret them, you can't
get anywhere, unless you just want to randomly try one likely thing after
another until you stumble onto it, and it feels really bad to decide it's
the starter, go to the trouble and expense to get one, put it in, and have
gotten no where.
And............i should have this on my site or something ...............the
starter and starter solenoid is a very basic system in most cars, easily
understood, and test, usually.
And I figure half the people on here have a vanagon outside in the
driveway, it's dark and cold, and wet, or snow all around, and no easy way
to get it jacked up, and not indoors where it's warm and clean and dry and
you can see stuff.............so not having decent conditions, or being able
to get under it nicely, all make it much harder to diagnose and trouble
shoot.
But I have worked on cars in the winter in Colorado, in the middle of
night, jacked up in an alley, outdoors, with snow and mud all around ....
since I was drinking like 20 cups of coffee a day , lol..........and you CAN
get under there and really get at that mutha, just takes determination,
patience, and understanding how the systems, work and a few test and
diagnosis tools. And maybe you won't have to even get under there, but a
'basic visual inspection' of the starter is called for , for sure., at
least, plus you want your trigger cheater wire hooked up, so you can operate
that thing from the engine compartment really easily, with the rest of the
van out of the picture, if you need to for testing or emergency starting.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Jeff Lincoln
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 5:23 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Not starting
There are others wayyyy more knowledgeable than I but Battery and Alternator
is where I'd start.
On Jan 25, 2008 6:03 PM, Aileen Boyd <aileen.boyd@gmail.com> wrote:
> While I know this could be fairly simple. I am very new to my Vanagon.
> It's
> been mighty cold here in upstate NY. Close to 16 degrees and sometimes -15
> with windchill factor. I have not been driving my 88' Westy very often
> (2-3
> short trips a week). The other I went to start her up, and nothing.
> Coolant
> light flickered, went off and the battery light stayed on. No turnover or
> noise as if it was attempting at all. Is this as simple as a battery
> recharge (brand new high-end battery was put in in August). Or could this
> be
> the Alternator? Anything else? Suggestions welcome.
>
> --
> If not Peace, then Justice.....
>
--
Thanks,
Jeff
'90 Carat (Grover)
'86 (We call this one Parts)
'85 GL (Preparing to move to a new Home)
'78 Bus (Melissa) Patty's Bus
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