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Date:         Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:01:27 -0800
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Dollar a gallon ethanol production?
Comments: To: Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@YAHOO.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <84621.66066.qm@web33513.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The at-the-pump price and dollars per mile in one's car/van, is only a tiny portion of the whole picture of course. Many downsides and challenges upstream from there, monetary and environmental costs, big ones. No free lunch you know.

'hard to obtain expensive diesels' ........ so true, but they don't want to hear that............lol, don't get me started !

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Robert Keezer Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:24 AM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Dollar a gallon ethanol production?

I ran a 50/50 or E-50 blend of gas and alchohol last year and my pocketbook loved it. I drove about 800 miles on this blend before I was out of the E-85 area. $2.10 a gallon in Nebraska.

I did'nt notice a lack of power. Nor would I like motorists even care. I gladly pay less just to get my engine to run. If it runs, the van moves.

I don't drive my Vanagon to feel lots of power- I drive it because it takes me where I need to go. The Jetta motor in my van is a high-compression . 10:1. I read raising it to 13:1 is useful for running E-85. I haven't yet tried to run on straight E-85. And as you know, E-85 is 15%gasoline.

I filled half the tank with the 85% blend and regular gas, which was not exactly a true 50/50 gas-alchohol blend.

When E-85 is commonplace I'll probably build the engine to use it more effeciently.

The positive side for all of us who drive gas Vanagons is we don't have to switch to the hard to obtain expensive Diesels.

--- sam mccarthy <sfcompost@YAHOO.COM> wrote:

> There is the problem of the alcohol corroding > certain metals( the pipe) and rubber ( maybe > seals) that i have read about which poses major > hurdles for distribution. > Plus.... due to the lower energy content of the > alcohol, you have to give the engine more of > it(larger jets in the carburetor, or different > injector timing) versus gasoline. This equates > to lower miles per gallon, think your van has a > short range now??? try 40% less. I think thats > the figure. Some of the loss in energy content > can be recovered by modifying the engine to > take advantage of the higher octane (104) > versus say premium (91 or 92). Can you say > "pull the engine, send to - insert favorite > re-builder - order up high compression > modifications, and alcohol resistant injection > system. > I was hot to use alcohol at one time, but the > fact that when its made from corn, the costs, > including the pesticides and fertilizers used > to grow it, ruin the economics changed my mind. > If you're driving a chevy with a V8 and simple > carburetor its not too difficult or expensive. > Honestly, I can't see many folks running stock > vanagons on ethanol. Maybe someone building > Subaru engines will put one together designed > for alcohol. Until then, i will have to use > biodiesel in my soon-to-be TDI van. Biodiesel > can be used with no modifications. And it can > be made from the millions of barrels of waste > vegetable oil we already have. I really can't > wait for someone to come up with cheap, > incredible batteries so we can quit the whole > infernal combustion fixation. > Imagine an engine in your car thats as reliable > as your blender. When was the last time you > had your blender tuned up??? > Imagine no cooling system to flush and > maintain, no engine oil to change, almost no > toxic fluids to keep from leaking out. > I can't wait!!! > Sam M. > Automatic digest processor > <LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> wrote: > > > > > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:25:29 -0600 > From: Jim Felder > Subject: Re: Dollar a gallon ethanol > production? > > I read last year the the distribution is that > alcohol can't be run through > existing pipelines... the molecules are too > small and they leak. Ethanol has > to be trucked from the point of manufacture to > wherever it is mixed with the > gas, a big energy cost right there. > Jim > > It's > > kinda amusing how the article suggests that > there's no infrastructure > > for ethanol distribution.... Can it really be > that hard to adapt the > > infrastructure already in place to distribute > gasoline, with that big > > a cost differential?? > > > > Happy Trails, > > > > Greg Potts > > 1973/74/77/79 Westfakia "Bob The Tomato > > www.pottsfamily.ca > > www.busesofthecorn.com > > > > ------------------------------ >

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