Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 20:28:06 -0800
Reply-To: David Kao <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David Kao <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Stevens Creek Volkswagen in Santa Clara
In-Reply-To: <04ab01c8651e$35ba86a0$6501a8c0@TOSHIBALAP>
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Scott:
I received no list emails for more than a day. Did that happen to you?
I don't know when the emails started to come in. I have been busy installing
an old software on my PC. It is a software for NT and I am trying to make
it work on Win2k. No luck so far. I can't justify buying a latest version
(more than $1k I believe).
Anyway, Just found out this email from you. I must reply fast,
You are absolutely. I have pretty much decided to not bother to fight for it
any more. I thought I explained it already. But I will explain again. Basically
I feel it's really not worth it any more. I can win but it will cost an arm and
a leg in terms of time and energy. Writing a letter to VW as you suggested is
an excellent idea and at least I will find out something interesting. But I
am not very good at writing. English is my 3rd language. By reading my email
you can see what I am saying.
I figured if I win I have to face the ugly faces of the dealer. They would be
squeezed by VWoA for a very thin or none profit in repairing my car under warranty.
THey would not be happy for doing such a job. They will find other thing not
under warranty and demand that I also fix (at my cost). They would demand that I
replace the EGR hose (almost $300). They might ask me to replace the two ball
joints that have broken boots. That's not very urgent and I would have an
independent shop do it for me. Beasides if I get remanfactured axles I ended up
lose more than I get. 3 good CV + 1 bad exchange for 4 reman. that's not a very
attractive deal for me.
I will wait until Spring and I will take the CV joint off to see how bad it is.
I will replace it myself if it needs to be replaced. A new outer CV joint is
in the range of about $100 (German made). So this is the plan for now. I will
find out if it is Lobro as you suggested. If not I will look for Lobro brand.
I started this thread for the purpose of finding a concensus about VW warranty
in general. My impression from this list is it's tough to deal with the dealers.
I think I would rather take care of the repair myself. My Passay might end up
getting many problems after a trip to the dealer. I do not want that at all.
Anayway, no I do not want to fight for the warranty invloving a few hundred
dollars any more. Hope you can understand why I choose this route.
Thanks a lot for all your advices. I read every one of your emails and I do
appreciate your time trying to help.
Mike, thanks for all the excellent advices too. I will save them for future
references. I hope I won't have any more warranty issues though.
David
--- Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
> David,
> No offense, but it's starting to sound like you are more committed to having
> a victim stance in this matter than in any real 'get it handled, move
> forward' action.
>
> I have suggested several tactics or actions, not of which I've heard you say
> 'that might help'.
> What I would do, is make a few clear requests/demands for what you think is
> legal and fair, and if you don't get satisfaction, fix the car yourself, and
> move on.
>
> Re reman axles, I don't know about Passsats so much, but on a 2WD vanagon
> each axle is 5 basic parts, one axle, 2 CV's and 2 boots.
> I would never consider buying some American aftermarket reman one piece axle
> to replace one of those, unless 'fast and cheap' was the primary
> requirement.
> I just get good German Lobro joints or CV & Boot kit, put them on there with
> good grease properly, and service them once in a while..........and they
> will be the last part on the van to ever give a problem for a long, long
> time. The axles themselves don't wear in any way that I have ever seen.
> This would apply to your inner CV's probably.
> On a FWD car the outer CV joints are more complex. And not that fun to
> deal with at all, so in that case one usually gets a high quality
> remanufactured axle............and I doubt those would be as good as new
> German lobro CV's in a vanagon ..........but it's the logical choice........
>
> But just get it handled, learn that you can't really trust or believe in
> warranty things or people honoring agreements ..........heck, there are SO
> MANY injustices I have to overlook, all the time - like oh........you know
> George's illegal war and lying to american public, or a hundred things in
> life that are unfair or crooked.
> Obsessing about those will just beat us up. I have had to learn that my
> whole life over and over. And usually, the best course of action, is
> minimize the pain, get the issue handled, and move on.
> And it's well known that buying a new car isn't that financially sound, in
> general, unless you get one that barely looses value, or .........in my
> opinion, you buy a quality car, take very good care of it, and get 15+ years
> out of it, or even more. That's a sound investment and good use of the
> automotive dollar.
> And VW's are not Honda's..........they WILL require repairs and money. Do
> some research at Consumer Reports. I'll will bet, that in the overall
> scheme of car ownership, and types of cars Americans buy and operate over
> the last 40 years.......even almost 50 now, since bugs have been around
> since the late 50's...........counting all the worn out and blown air cooled
> engines.......
> Heck, any vw bus or van engine is good for about 7 to 10 years, that's it.
> And counting the waterboxer head gasket joke, ..........overall, for the
> typical American consumer that's not that savvy about cars, expects them to
> go like old fashioned Detroit iron just indefinitely, VW's are costly to own
> and operate,, not the very worst, but definitely toward the worse end of the
> scale.
> But they are lovable, which is why people put up with that. But VW's have
> never been Dodge Slant Sixes, or Doge Tradesman 200 vans- both of which just
> will not die, like never, given a timing chain or two, or Toyota
> Tercels.........the body is dust before the drivetrain fails, or old
> Corrollas, ........VW's are cute, lovable, there's a wonderful global fun
> family of owners, the 'vw energy' is great, and fun ..........but they ain't
> no Mercedes Benz's , not at all. Not even slightly, and needing CV's or
> front axles is 'normal'..........
> And there is a HGUE tendency of people who sell stuff to let you, or even
> lead you to believe, that it's the perfect product of your dreams. MOST
> sales are hype-driven.
> Personally, I find car sales people to be pretty scummy, because they
> only have ONE agenda, and that's to get you in some car, via lease or a
> sale, that is going to benefit THEM the most. I interviewed for a job at a
> Toyota Dealer one time, the position was 'Customer Relations Adviser'
> something like that.
> The Real Job, was on Monday's to talk people who had been pushed into
> buying a new car during the weekend to keep it. In California there is/was a
> law that you have 3 days to cancel out on the whole deal, no matter what, if
> it's under 3 days since you signed, they have to take the car back. The job
> was to further manipulate people into keeping the car.
> I probably couldn't buy a new car because I wouldn't be able to stand
> their manipulative tactics. And perhaps that's what happened in your
> warranty thing, I wouldn't have any idea of course, but the will try to make
> it sound perfect, and then they'll try to get out of standing behind their
> end of the deal.
> And you haven't even begun to contact state agencies that regulate this
> stuff, written to vw of American via postal letter, that I know of
> ...........and I hope you'll make some clear simple requests, write a few
> letters to the right places, fix you car, and move on. The emotional pain
> of the anger over feeling ripped off, justifiable as it is, and very
> understandable, just costs you too much, and they sure don't give a rat's
> you know what, so your real power is in do what you can, don't to 'that'
> again, fix your car and move on.
> You know about California's Lemon Law ? My point is there are laws top
> protect the consumer against car dealerships and car companies. A friend of
> mine, who works in the automotive world in the insurance side of it, a lover
> of VWs through and through.........bought a new 98 Eurovan with VR6 engine.
> He had it back to the dealer for power steering problems like 8 times or
> more. After two years of ownership, he got the dealer into Arbitration with
> the State of California, and they had to return all of his money on the
> Eurovan. And again .....an example of how vw's are not the best made cars in
> the world, perhaps the most lovable, but they tend to 'like money' frankly,
> at least a good part of the time. But this sort of thing that you have
> happening, is dealt with and addressed all the time through proper channels.
> And for me, my style is that's all too much hassle, I just fix it myself,
> and never do 'that' again, about new vw's or warranties etc. Hope you'll
> start feeling better soon about the whole thing !
> Sincerely, scott
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Syncronicity1
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 10:11 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Stevens Creek Volkswagen in Santa Clara
>
> Don't forget that the "Service Advisors" at dealers are on commission.
> Their incentive is to create problems, not satisfy customers. You are
> really on your own now, they cannot be trusted, you can't believe anything
> they say.
>
> Roland
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> David Kao
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:21 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Stevens Creek Volkswagen in Santa Clara
>
> Maybe this is actually an American culture in the auto industry.
> A warranty is not really meant a warranty. It means if you are able
> to fight you will get it. I do not want to fight it any more. I
> don't think I will have any advantage by getting a pair of
> remanufactured axles.
>
> David
>
>
>
>
> --- Allan Streib <streib@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>
> > New car warranties are a marketing gambit, just like rebates. They
> > are not a guarantee that you won't have problems. They are not an
> > indicator of the real longevity or quality of the vehicle. Not at
> > all. KIA has 10 year warranties. Why? Are their cars that good?
> > NO, it's because it is the only way they can get people to buy them.
> >
> > Problems getting them to actually honor the warranty when something
> > does go wrong is not unique to VW. I have heard horror stories about
> > people trying to get Chrysler to honor their warranties.
> >
> > Sorry to hear of your troubles. Hope they come around.
> >
> > Allan
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
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