Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 13:36:46 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: 87 van 2.1 a/t w/no motor x 1 yr with intermittent rap - and
winter storage
In-Reply-To: <47A48994.4020100@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I pretty much agree with that and would like to add this :
Just 'running the engine' ...............is really rough on things. It's
far better to DRIVE the van around so all the other parts get moved and used
and lubed. And things are under load then too, which produces more heat and
you want that - like that acidy water burned out of the exhaust system. So
driving it is much better. I think I'd rather let it sit even 2 or 3 months
untouched, ( except air out on nice days at every opportunity if outside,
and if inside, air out in general, and protect from mice and rodents - I
just have those little yellow boxes of mice poison under a work bench or
cabinet in the garage/shop etc. ) - but I'd rather let it 'just sit' and
then do a 40+ minute drive, then start it a few times a month and run it no
load. And do exercise the rest of the car, seriously.
I am currently keeping 10 vans and cars alive and happy and healthy,
batteries charged up, aired out on nice days and driven now and then, oil
fresh, etc.., in a mild winter climate, that's also Arizona dry most of the
time, in southern Oregon. *really* a good environment for cars. The most
important thing is, when you run it, drive it, and drive it to fully warmed
up , and then drive it an additional say 20 minutes.
On sticky hydraulic lifters.............
Well, first thing !!!...........occasional short periods of operation MAKE
the lifters get noisy. I've had subaru conversions ( and waterboxers ) that
I'd move around from time to time, only running them about 2 minutes at a
time. Do that 8 times, and I've got noisy lifters,
And even with hydraulic lifter treatment in the oil it would take up to 40
minutes operation for them to get quite again. Or even 6 30 minute errands
even.
Also........Hydraulic Lifter Treatment - one I use is called
CD2.........it works, or helps.
On waterboxers the rocker arms are adjustable, 'usually' you should never
have to adjust them...........if you have a noisy/collapsed one and are
trying to adjust for it, the lifter feels mushy as you turn the screw down,
and you can only guess at where to set it, and you don't want it too tight
or too loose of course..........so normally you don't go adjusting there.
And I have seen maybe one or two cases of damaged rocker or
pushrod.........that's quite rare though. Usually just wait, and treat the
oil, and drive it, and lifter noise will go away. I've have it take 25
errand type trips during a month before they all get quite again, even. .
But really, no short and frequent periods of running the engine. I can't
say that enough.
Because when you start up a sitting engine in cold conditions and don't
operate it to fully warmed up, and under load, you are really increasing
wear.
There is an oil draining off the parts factor too. Oil sticks nicely to
metal for a quite a while...........say that ring and pinion sitting there
with the top 4/5ths of the ring gear sitting in air, where there is
condensation happening some, and gear oil really sticks well, but it also
very, very gradually slips off the metal, same for engine oil and those
parts -
So it's a toss up, on the one hand starting it frequently keeps oil on
other things, but significant wear occurs the first 5 to 10 minutes of
running too, badly so.
Obviously the best thing is really drive it say, once a month, for an hour
at least...........and even then, cars only being driven that much go down
hill slightly , so regular use is what they are made for, and is what's best
for them................so if it can't be used and fully warmed up and
driven on a regular basis, and short periods of no load operation are pretty
bad, I think the best compromise is let it sit, for up to 3 months, and
hopefully indoors and in a half dry environment ..............then not much
deterioration happens, not 'too badly' anyway.
But get some lifter treatment in it, and avoid frequent short periods of
operation , especially no loud, not driving operation of the engine ,
seriously. It's better for it to 'just rest peacefully' for up to 3 months,
hopefully in a half decent environment, like semi-dry and be sure to air it
out whenever possible..........and that's about best you can do.
There are 'even more evolved' ways to store a car for the winter. I was
reading about what fanatical Porsche 356 owners in the northeast do for the
winter in a porsche club magazine........and they're pulling the plugs,
putting wd-40 or diesel fuel into the cylinders, lightly putting the spark
plugs back in, not even finger tight, and maybe even getting all the
gasoline out of the carbs, and let is 'rest peacefully indoors' for the
entire winter that way. And then they have special tricks when they go to
fire it up the first time in the spring - mothballing for the winter, you
could call it.
But I never do that, I just do what I suggested above. Overall, I'd
say moisture and lack of airing out, and possibly insects and rodents are
the biggest dangers to cars not used very much in the winter. On nice days
I have to go out and open about 15 windows at least, and close them all up
before sunset too.
To really preserve a car, besides driving it nicely in a nice climate
like southern California ...........real car collectors keep cars in a
temperature and humidity controlled garage. Even light on things.........if
you REALLY want to preserve things you don't even expose them to light very
much, that's how far people can go preserving and taking care of things..
Personally , I just get a deep reward out of preserving and rescuing even,
these great vanagons., They are ENTIRELY worthy of all the care we can give
them.
For exceptionally rare and collectible automobiles..............like
priceless 110 year old Mercedes Benz's say.............or the most beautiful
and rare Bugatti model say, cars that are literally priceless, some owners
don't even consider that they 'own' such cars, but that they are merely the
car's caretaker for a while.
But yeah ! no sort periods of running ! It's a terrible thing to do to a
car. And .........normally I like hydraulic lifters..........but they do
have this one disadvantage about taking a while to pump back up, especially
in an older engine, whereas shim style non-hydraulic lifters, as used in
diesel vw engines for example, only very gradually ever need adjustment, and
they can start right up and never have a lifter problem.
One east coast guy I talked to with an air-cooled vanagon, with
hydraulic lifters, said he overfills his oil by one qt when he parks it for
the winter, and never has a hydraulic lifter issue when he fires it up in
the spring.
Sorry it got so long !
Scott
www.turbovans.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Kenneth Wilford
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 7:18 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: 87 van 2.1 a/t w/no motor x 1 yr with intermittent wrap
Jeff,
It is lifter tap from the lifters bleeding down from sitting for a
while. You could run the van more and it probably wouldn't happen but I
understand why you don't want to drive it in the winter. It is a mere
annoyance at best. Once you take it out for the spring and drive it
more it should not occur. I would just not worry about it unless it
starts doing it every morning, then you might want to track down that
lifter and replace it.
Hope this helps,
Ken Wilford
John 3:16
www.vanagain.com
Jeff Clayman wrote:
> My van sits in the winter and I start it up 1-2x/month and run it. The
past 2-3 times it develops a wrpa on l side of motor that sound like a
bearing wrap. However, when it warms and I shut the motor off it goes away?
>
> Sticking lifter?
>
> Anybody know what this is and how to prevent it?
>
> Jeff
>
>
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