Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:00:27 -0800
Reply-To: David Kao <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David Kao <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Stevens Creek Volkswagen in Santa Clara
In-Reply-To: <04ac01c86520$2982dca0$6501a8c0@TOSHIBALAP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
There was a long story about it. When it started I had the check engine
light went on then went off for a few months. I noticed that it would go
off if I make a 200 mile trip. But it would come back on in a week or so.
One day I saw on the Discovery Channel that a university professor led
some students to investigate some American cars that were found to have
the Check Engine light on but still passing smog check regardless.
Their conclusion of the investigation was the ECU was too agreesive
in turning on the check engine light. Those cars all had the most recent
3-way catalyst emission system, which has two oxygen sensors one before and
the other after the catalytic converter. These oxygen sensors will feed
signals to the ECU to constantly enrich then lean the air/fuel mixture
a number of rounds per minute something like that. My Passat has two such
CAT (that's why $3000 bill to fix).
The Discovery Channel story triggered me to Google on the internet for
hours. I discovered other Passat owners encountering the same problem I
had. They reported $3000 bill too. Some were actually done but under
the Federal mandated emission system warranty of 80,000 mile/8 year.
I then took my Passat to the S Crook VW. I anticipated that my CATs be
replaced under warranty. They initially did not mention at all the word
warranty until I asked. Then they said there was a recall on the ECU.
They told me if reprogramming of the ECU did not fix it then the CATs
need to be replaced and the bill would be something like $3000. It
turned out after reprogramming the ECU (or whatever they actually did)
the light never came back on again and it passed a smog check recently.
Basically I agree that the crooked dealer did try to get money out of
customers using every possible tactics. Yes, in California there is a
tremendous doubt in people's mind about the honesty of dealers. At least
I have developed a mindset to not trust those crooks. I do trust a
small guy who runs a fairly large size garage alone in Santa Clara.
I asked him to check my CV joints. He was reluctant to call my CV joints
bad. He cited the reason of expensive parts. He tried to save money
for me. I do believe many small shops build their business on solid
reputation that takes that kind of heart to build it up. He checked
my broken ball joint boots and determined that there was no wear yet.
But I know they needs to be replaced sooner or later. Strange enough
that I never saw a second mechanic in his shop yet I saw MBs, BMWs
and of cours lots of Lexus, Toyotas and Hondas there. The name of the
shop is Ocean Auto Repair with a solid customer base and runs the
shop by one man.
Finding good mechanics in California is like shopping for a good used
car. Theye are there but you have to be careful in looking.
David
--- Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
> Sounds like you're getting the right plane now David.
> You might see what I wrote just before seeing this.
>
> That 3,000 repair bill they tried to hit you with.
> Don't think for a second that car dealerships are competent or even worse,
> don't think they're honest.
> A car dealership in a place like Santa Clara, the need to bring in some
> insane number like a hundred thou a DAY.
> There are three departments, Sales, Parts, and Service.
> The service department is the biggest money getter. I don't go around
> readily accusing of fraud or even assuming it, but it's not impossible to
> image that they do that 3,000 repair and then update the ecu and not tell
> you about that part, when they knew that was the real issue in the first
> place.
> Worse than that..........i am sure car dealers somewhere, have charged the
> 3,000 repair, and not even do the work to the car, just say they have,
> upgrade the ecu, and charge as though they had done two new cats or
> whatever.
> There are endless cases of car repair fraud in California, or have been. I'm
> not saying I think they did this, but I am saying this sort of thing has
> probably happened.
>
> Sears Auto Center in San Rafael, now about 15 years but they got busted so
> badly for over selling front suspension repairs, it's silly.
> I used to get 'The Repair Reporter' ......that's a state issued report on
> all the actions that the CARB takes against shops. Huge long list of 10,000
> dollars fines and being suspended form doing smog checks, that that's just
> in smog checks, not in all types of repairs.
> I have read of someone dropping off a pretty new Honda for service, and
> marking the tires somehow so they could tell if it had been moved or
> touched, and .........i don't know if this is true or not .............but
> the claim was they got charged for service, and the car never got touched or
> moved.
> I'm not saying they are all crooked, but some of the time some of them
> are.
> It's extra bad in California , the animosity and distrust between shops and
> consumers. I worked there professionally for many many years on cars. I've
> worked at a car deanship a bit. At the one I worked at, on warranty
> repairs, on which they did pretty well money wise, they would replace more
> than they had to , and rip off the parent auto company. Gladly, and almost
> openly. They figured that was just a 'normal part of
> business'...........cheat the car company on warrantee repairs. That was a
> Lincoln Mercury Renault dealer in the late 80's in California.
> I good competent independent hard working honest repair shop is by far the
> best deal. Dealers can be crooks, for sure.
> Scott
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> David Kao
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 11:09 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Stevens Creek Volkswagen in Santa Clara
>
> Oh well, it's Friday so why not a little more on this issue.
>
> Yes, I agree. The guy apparently was trying to make me accept a
> repair that I will pay. If it is done under factory warranty they
> probably won't make any money at all. This explains why they have
> tried all kinds of words to deny warranty coverage. It is indeed
> up to me to justify the effort to fight and what I will get if
> I win. I think I will get very little. You will never know if they
> will do something to your car and cost you a fortune in the future.
>
> I still have bitter memory from the Check Engine light that came on
> more than a year ago that would have cost $3000 for parts to fix.
> Had I not found that it was a flaw in the ECU, and VW had a recall
> on it I probably would have two new CATs on the Passat but a loss
> of a ton of weight due to thinner pocket. The service adviser at
> Stevens Crook VW never discovered the recall until I questioned.
> THey reprogrammed the ECU. The light never came back on. Passed
> California smog test with excellent numbers a few months ago.
>
> Forget it. I will repair it myself. A few hundred bucks. It's really
> the time and sweat that matter. The VW brand is one to avoid in the
> future. Accura is on my radar screen in future years to come. Meanwhile
> my two aging Vanagon will have their last breaths before they die.
> I am happy with the two aging legendary bricks.
>
> David
>
>
>
>
> --- Syncronicity1 <syncronicity1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Don't forget that the "Service Advisors" at dealers are on commission.
> > Their incentive is to create problems, not satisfy customers. You are
> > really on your own now, they cannot be trusted, you can't believe anything
> > they say.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> > David Kao
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:21 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: Stevens Creek Volkswagen in Santa Clara
> >
> > Maybe this is actually an American culture in the auto industry.
> > A warranty is not really meant a warranty. It means if you are able
> > to fight you will get it. I do not want to fight it any more. I
> > don't think I will have any advantage by getting a pair of
> > remanufactured axles.
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Allan Streib <streib@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > New car warranties are a marketing gambit, just like rebates. They
> > > are not a guarantee that you won't have problems. They are not an
> > > indicator of the real longevity or quality of the vehicle. Not at
> > > all. KIA has 10 year warranties. Why? Are their cars that good?
> > > NO, it's because it is the only way they can get people to buy them.
> > >
> > > Problems getting them to actually honor the warranty when something
> > > does go wrong is not unique to VW. I have heard horror stories about
> > > people trying to get Chrysler to honor their warranties.
> > >
> > > Sorry to hear of your troubles. Hope they come around.
> > >
> > > Allan
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
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