Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 14:02:54 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Stevens Creek Volkswagen in Santa Clara
In-Reply-To: <A7148D53DF0B41BFBE32EDACB3307BB4@Syncronicity>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
David,
No offense, but it's starting to sound like you are more committed to having
a victim stance in this matter than in any real 'get it handled, move
forward' action.
I have suggested several tactics or actions, not of which I've heard you say
'that might help'.
What I would do, is make a few clear requests/demands for what you think is
legal and fair, and if you don't get satisfaction, fix the car yourself, and
move on.
Re reman axles, I don't know about Passsats so much, but on a 2WD vanagon
each axle is 5 basic parts, one axle, 2 CV's and 2 boots.
I would never consider buying some American aftermarket reman one piece axle
to replace one of those, unless 'fast and cheap' was the primary
requirement.
I just get good German Lobro joints or CV & Boot kit, put them on there with
good grease properly, and service them once in a while..........and they
will be the last part on the van to ever give a problem for a long, long
time. The axles themselves don't wear in any way that I have ever seen.
This would apply to your inner CV's probably.
On a FWD car the outer CV joints are more complex. And not that fun to
deal with at all, so in that case one usually gets a high quality
remanufactured axle............and I doubt those would be as good as new
German lobro CV's in a vanagon ..........but it's the logical choice........
But just get it handled, learn that you can't really trust or believe in
warranty things or people honoring agreements ..........heck, there are SO
MANY injustices I have to overlook, all the time - like oh........you know
George's illegal war and lying to american public, or a hundred things in
life that are unfair or crooked.
Obsessing about those will just beat us up. I have had to learn that my
whole life over and over. And usually, the best course of action, is
minimize the pain, get the issue handled, and move on.
And it's well known that buying a new car isn't that financially sound, in
general, unless you get one that barely looses value, or .........in my
opinion, you buy a quality car, take very good care of it, and get 15+ years
out of it, or even more. That's a sound investment and good use of the
automotive dollar.
And VW's are not Honda's..........they WILL require repairs and money. Do
some research at Consumer Reports. I'll will bet, that in the overall
scheme of car ownership, and types of cars Americans buy and operate over
the last 40 years.......even almost 50 now, since bugs have been around
since the late 50's...........counting all the worn out and blown air cooled
engines.......
Heck, any vw bus or van engine is good for about 7 to 10 years, that's it.
And counting the waterboxer head gasket joke, ..........overall, for the
typical American consumer that's not that savvy about cars, expects them to
go like old fashioned Detroit iron just indefinitely, VW's are costly to own
and operate,, not the very worst, but definitely toward the worse end of the
scale.
But they are lovable, which is why people put up with that. But VW's have
never been Dodge Slant Sixes, or Doge Tradesman 200 vans- both of which just
will not die, like never, given a timing chain or two, or Toyota
Tercels.........the body is dust before the drivetrain fails, or old
Corrollas, ........VW's are cute, lovable, there's a wonderful global fun
family of owners, the 'vw energy' is great, and fun ..........but they ain't
no Mercedes Benz's , not at all. Not even slightly, and needing CV's or
front axles is 'normal'..........
And there is a HGUE tendency of people who sell stuff to let you, or even
lead you to believe, that it's the perfect product of your dreams. MOST
sales are hype-driven.
Personally, I find car sales people to be pretty scummy, because they
only have ONE agenda, and that's to get you in some car, via lease or a
sale, that is going to benefit THEM the most. I interviewed for a job at a
Toyota Dealer one time, the position was 'Customer Relations Adviser'
something like that.
The Real Job, was on Monday's to talk people who had been pushed into
buying a new car during the weekend to keep it. In California there is/was a
law that you have 3 days to cancel out on the whole deal, no matter what, if
it's under 3 days since you signed, they have to take the car back. The job
was to further manipulate people into keeping the car.
I probably couldn't buy a new car because I wouldn't be able to stand
their manipulative tactics. And perhaps that's what happened in your
warranty thing, I wouldn't have any idea of course, but the will try to make
it sound perfect, and then they'll try to get out of standing behind their
end of the deal.
And you haven't even begun to contact state agencies that regulate this
stuff, written to vw of American via postal letter, that I know of
...........and I hope you'll make some clear simple requests, write a few
letters to the right places, fix you car, and move on. The emotional pain
of the anger over feeling ripped off, justifiable as it is, and very
understandable, just costs you too much, and they sure don't give a rat's
you know what, so your real power is in do what you can, don't to 'that'
again, fix your car and move on.
You know about California's Lemon Law ? My point is there are laws top
protect the consumer against car dealerships and car companies. A friend of
mine, who works in the automotive world in the insurance side of it, a lover
of VWs through and through.........bought a new 98 Eurovan with VR6 engine.
He had it back to the dealer for power steering problems like 8 times or
more. After two years of ownership, he got the dealer into Arbitration with
the State of California, and they had to return all of his money on the
Eurovan. And again .....an example of how vw's are not the best made cars in
the world, perhaps the most lovable, but they tend to 'like money' frankly,
at least a good part of the time. But this sort of thing that you have
happening, is dealt with and addressed all the time through proper channels.
And for me, my style is that's all too much hassle, I just fix it myself,
and never do 'that' again, about new vw's or warranties etc. Hope you'll
start feeling better soon about the whole thing !
Sincerely, scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Syncronicity1
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 10:11 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Stevens Creek Volkswagen in Santa Clara
Don't forget that the "Service Advisors" at dealers are on commission.
Their incentive is to create problems, not satisfy customers. You are
really on your own now, they cannot be trusted, you can't believe anything
they say.
Roland
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
David Kao
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:21 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Stevens Creek Volkswagen in Santa Clara
Maybe this is actually an American culture in the auto industry.
A warranty is not really meant a warranty. It means if you are able
to fight you will get it. I do not want to fight it any more. I
don't think I will have any advantage by getting a pair of
remanufactured axles.
David
--- Allan Streib <streib@cs.indiana.edu> wrote:
> New car warranties are a marketing gambit, just like rebates. They
> are not a guarantee that you won't have problems. They are not an
> indicator of the real longevity or quality of the vehicle. Not at
> all. KIA has 10 year warranties. Why? Are their cars that good?
> NO, it's because it is the only way they can get people to buy them.
>
> Problems getting them to actually honor the warranty when something
> does go wrong is not unique to VW. I have heard horror stories about
> people trying to get Chrysler to honor their warranties.
>
> Sorry to hear of your troubles. Hope they come around.
>
> Allan
>
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