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Date:         Mon, 11 Feb 2008 14:05:34 +0000
Reply-To:     kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Kenneth Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Subject:      Re: starters-used vs. cheap rebuilt vs. Bosch rebuilt
Comments: To: The Bus Depot <vanagon@BUSDEPOT.COM>

I have to agree with Ron on the point that the Bosch rebuilt units are the best out there. I have had customers try to get their units rebuilt locally at a local electric shop and if they do a really thorough job it is usually only a slight price difference (if not more) than the Bosch rebuild. The Bosch units have the lowest infant mortality rate (practically zero). I have bought cheapy starters or had customers do the same only to have them be junk out of the box! You go install them and the van doesn't even start one time or turns over really slow. I have learned not to even mess with the Advance Auto/Autozone stuff. Yes it is cheaper and has a lifetime warranty, however that doesn't help you when you are broken down somewhere with no tools shortly after you have put it on. Bosch units last for many years and are a quality rebuild (not a spray paint rebuild like many of the cheapy ones).

One other note. A certain supplier (GW) sells a new "high torque" starter. I installed one on a customer's van last year because he had already bought it before he came to me. I got the van back less than a year later with complaints that the starter wasn't working and it was totally shot! The wire to the solenoid was rotted and the bolt on the solenoid had broken free of the housing. It was a smoking pile of you-know-what. I have had other customers who have had similar experiences and have been doubly upset because they bought this "new" unit and threw away their old Bosch cores. Then they had to buy a rebuilt Bosch unit a short while later when the new high torque starter took a dive and to add insult to injury, they can't even send in this other starter as a core so they are also out the core money. They lived and learned so I wanted to pass this on. Bosch is best.

The "high torque" is not what you want with a waterboxer anyway. It doesn't take much effort to crank one over. I can do it by hand with no tools. You want cranking speed and to get the high torque the starter turns the motor over at exactly half of the speed as the stock Bosch unit. So you get twice as much torque but half the speed. Another tidbit I thought you should know.

Hope this helps, Ken Wilford John 3:16 www.vanagain.com

-------------- Original message -------------- From: The Bus Depot <vanagon@BUSDEPOT.COM>

> > I am trying to choose between a used starter for about $55, a > > cheap AutoZone starter for $90 and free shipping or a Bosch > > one for $115 (3/4 hp normally for 1.9 engine) or $130 (1 hp > > normally for 2.1 engine) The Autozone one has lifetime warranty, > > the Bosch one year, but that includes towing and two years > > roadside assistance. (I don't know why they would give you roadside > > assistance for longer than the warranty, but whatever.) > > > > It's tempting to get the cheapest rebuilt. I don't think I > > want to take a chance on a used. Has anyoe had any experience > > with the AutoZone Duralast 16722? > > > > While I can't speak about this starter in particular, I can speak of > discount auto store rebuilt electrics in general. I have had more than one > customer who has ended up buying one of our starters or alternators after > having had to take advantage of the "lifetime warranty" for the third or > fourth time in a couple of years. They finally got fed up with constantly > breaking down and having to remove their starter or alternator, warranty or > not. The discount auto parts chains buy rebuilt electrics by the truckload > from the lowest bidder. Quality takes a back seat to price. In the extreme, > some may have had little done beyond a good cleaning if the used core they > put on the bench to rebuild tested fine as it sat. It is cheaper for them > to cut corners and then exchange some of them when needed, than to pay more > for better QC and a more thorough job in the first place - hence the > "lifetime warranty." You must consider that if the van breaks down in the > middle of nowhere, your "lifetime warranty" is only honored at that chain. > If you're stranded on the side of the road after hours, or are fifty miles > from the nearest branch, what good will it do you? > > Bosch's "free towing" is a smart marketing ploy. The catch is that the tow > is only paid for if the covered part is factory defective (and if you > replace it at your expense, if it's been over a year). If you get your van > towed for a faulty starter and the real problem ends up being a weak > battery, corroded connection, ignition switch, etc., they don't reimburse > for the tow and their authorized service center gets to bill you for the > repair. Since Bosch electrics rarely fail within a couple of years, they're > banking that you're likely to have a different problem - one they can charge > you for, as well as the tow - rather than a defective starter. I suspect > that it's a good gamble on their part. > > That said, there are good quality rebuilders out there besides Bosch. One of > the companies I use, for example, is a small business that has specialized > in Bosch electrics for over 20 years. His out-of-the-box defect rate is just > a smidgeon higher than Bosch (but still negligable, at under 1 percent), and > the subsequent reliability rate is roughly comparable to Bosch's, but the > price is much lower. (I also sell the Bosch rebuilds, of course.) So there > are middle-ground options between a Bosch and the cheapest rebuild you can > find. There may also be a local rebuilder in your area who can rebuild your > unit one-off at a low price and knows what he's doing. It may pay to ask > your local mechanic if he knows of anyone nearby who's reputable. > > - Ron Salmon > The Bus Depot, Inc. > www.busdepot.com > (215) 234-VWVW > > _____________________________________________ > Toll-Free for Orders by PART # : 1-866-BUS-DEPOT > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] > > On Behalf Of Edward Duntz > > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 4:42 PM > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > > Subject: starters-used vs. cheap rebuilt vs. Bosch rebuilt > > > > I need to replace the starter in my '87 with stock 2.1 > > engine. It used to need an occasional tap if it wouldn't > > start, but now I have had to hit it with a hammer while a > > kind passerby turns the key. This has happened twice, both > > times in the rain and snow. > > > > Already having put several thousand dollars into various > > mechanical systems in the last few years, and still having > > undiagnosed running/FI problems, I don't want to spend more > > than I need to on a starter. So now my question. > > > > > > > Thanks, > > Ed > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. > > http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sha > > relife_012008


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