Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:33:33 -0800
Reply-To: B Monk <wmonk@SNET.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: B Monk <wmonk@SNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Retrofit Electric Pumps and a 110V pre-heat circulating system
In-Reply-To: <000c01c87380$8d0062c0$6a01a8c0@DADSTOSHIBA>
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I hate to keep using my Mustang as a reference but....
When I shut down my motor before I had the electric pump,fan, and
controller installed it would spike from 220 to over 300 degrees the max
my gauge would read.
Bill
Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
After run cooling can be a requirement for many engines depending on use
and load. Think about this, under load, parts of the engine get hot enough
to almost glow. Pistons and the inside of the heads may be getting to 600
or higher. So you pull into the rest stop and immediately shut the engine
down. That heat has to go somewhere. On the Water boxer, the rubber
gaskets probably get the brunt of it. Stretching head studs and those
internal head cracks are the next step. Yes I do cool down and that along
with the oil cooler is probably why I have not had to open the engine at
all at 254K. Cool down idling does not have to be long. Many newer cars
have electric water pumps for after run cooling. Especially turbo charged
engines. One or two minutes can make a huge difference. Even if the bulk
temperature goes up, letting those hot parts transfer the excess heat to
oil and coolant that is still flowing can stop the heat soak and oil
coking that messes engines up. Most Diesel truck engines specify 3-5
minute cool down after operating under load. Industrial Diesel generators
usually get programmed for 20 minute cool downs.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Daniel - Shazam
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:30 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Retrofit Electric Pumps and a 110V pre-heat circulating
system
There are electric water pumps that go right in the main coolant hoses.
Marine applications. I removed one from a subaru engine conversion vanagon
once. It was used as a boost pump in addition to the timing belt driven
water pump on the engine.
Drag racing is somewhat of a special application.
Top Fuel dragsters have no cooling system of any kind I believe.
As for after run cooling..........it doesn't seem to hurt engines that
they
just get shut off hot.........and the temp actually goes up in the engine
at
first for a few minutes.
I very much like the idea of heating the coolant with house 110V and
circulating it via an electric pump ( either 110VAC or 12vdc ) and then
running a heater fan at low speed.
Do that for half an hour on a below freezing day and you could hop into a
vanagon with 60 degrees or so interior temp to start with, and defrosted
windshield, before you even start the engine or burn any gas. Your
energy
would come from the electric company of course, but I suspect the increase
in your monthly bill would be very small.
As Jim pointed out, this has a quite significant advantage of both reduced
wear on the engine, as it's starting fairly warmed up, and increase fuel
economy slightly, again because the engine starts out from a pretty warmed
up state.
Car manufacturers ( Saab ) have even experimented with large heat
sinks, to store heat energy from the last time the car was run, so that on
the next cold start, they can have it in closed loop within a very short
time period, to reduce emissions on a cold start up. That's the very worst
situation from an emissions view point - cold start up and the first
several
minutes of operation until things are up to temp. It's worth it to do a
lot
to be able to get the engine from stone cold ( or never stone cold in the
first place ! ......like with this 110volt AC system ) to warmed up as
quickly as possible.
Now *That* I think is very worth investing in - in terms of fuel economy
too. And it depends on how long and how often your drive cycles are too of
course. If all you ever do is start and drive for 3 hours once a day, you
are only spending a tiny portion of the time or miles not warmed up. But
if
you do as so many people do, start it a few times a day, and go for say 10
or 20 minutes drives, then both engine wear and fuel mileage suffer due to
being in that bad 'first few minutes' a bigger percentage of the time.
I would even predict............for someone doing medium short drive
cycles,
say drive one way to work in the AM, and one way back at night, with about
say 10 miles for each drive, if they could keep the van plugged in and the
coolant warm and circulating when the van is off, there's 2 mpg to be
realized there. Depending on length and frequency of drive cycles,
and on time of year of course.
In very cold winter temps the benefit would be significant for short drive
cycles. Less so in summer. By golly, I'm sitting in my 'new' AW right now
on shore power, there's one of those circulating water pumps on that dead
Canadian model diesel vanagon sitting over there, and a block heater, and
I've been saving a waterboxer block heater that just bolts to the bottom
of
a wbxr engine ........and I've got a 12v power supply or two for running
the
heater fan...............by jove, if I find time, next winter I'll be
starting all my local driving with a warm cabin and almost warmed up
engine,
off of shore power, which is included in my rent anyway !! Or even before
this winter is over ! I think I can get the basic parts in pretty easily
and quickly.
I just *can not* wait to work on this ! Very doable, and 110VAC from
'The Man' is abundant, and I even have all the parts already.
Once the vision is in place, the rest is easy - it's just filling in the
steps.
You guys work on the electric water pump idea.
I'll work on this, and I'm pretty sure the system I'm talking about here
will increase winter time short driving cycle fuel mileage, reduce engine
wear, and I'll be starting out with a clear windshield and a warm cabin.
Hot damn ! - and possibly a 2 mpg improvement for 'winter time short
driving cycle' operation.
Now 'that' is what I call a "Shazam" !
Scott
www.turbovans.com
thanks for helping getting me inspired on this !
biggest hassle with be plugging and unplugging the 110V cord from the
barn.
But it'll be worth it.